The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Wait for it...Wait for it...

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Pesto — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:22:54 -0000

Andy, this isn't about her "appeal" as if she were a fictional character -- it's about her actual, executive record as a dishonest, vindictive, corrupt wingnut.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Whitey — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:14:12 -0000

RE: Andy

"The real reason for the intense criticism of Palin is not gender, or her qualifications (which are no less than Tim Kaine's, who was discussed seriously as a VP pick for Obama), but class. She is not from the upper middle class, the class that believes it has the right to rule because its members have spent a lifetime cultivating upper-middle experiences and behaviors. Palin is non-U, and doesn't appear to aspire to U-membership. The fact that her teenage daughter is carrying a child to term rather than getting an abortion is evidence of this. Her presence on the national stage offends the sensibilities of many in the media and the ruling class."

Wrong. She's a scandal laden governor of a very small state that essentially operates as a rentier economy. Prior to these 18 months as governor, she was the mayor of a town of 7,000 people. Kaine was mayor of Richmond, population 200,000, then lieutenant governor, then governor; he worked his way up through the ranks. Moreover, this line is really irrelevant, as Obama chose not to select Tim Kaine, quite possibly because he lacked the necessary experience for the job. Try again.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Jake — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:58:08 -0000

In an op-ed today in NH's Union Leader, Bob Novak also mentions that Palin is "good-looking." I'm sure Team McCain will be quick to point out the rampant sexism in the media.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Andy — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:47:47 -0000

The real reason for the intense criticism of Palin is not gender, or her qualifications (which are no less than Tim Kaine's, who was discussed seriously as a VP pick for Obama), but class. She is not from the upper middle class, the class that believes it has the right to rule because its members have spent a lifetime cultivating upper-middle experiences and behaviors. Palin is non-U, and doesn't appear to aspire to U-membership. The fact that her teenage daughter is carrying a child to term rather than getting an abortion is evidence of this. Her presence on the national stage offends the sensibilities of many in the media and the ruling class.

She will surprise her critics. Her appeal will be much deeper than they expect.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Whitey — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:48:53 -0000

RE: Jonah

"I dunno. I wouldn't really call Biden's remarks chuavinist or misogynistic, but the attention to Palin's looks is clearly due to her gender, and there are absolutely ways that you can demean women by complimenting them on their looks. I'm not convinced that Biden is guilty of it so much as he is caught up in a general national obsession with Palin's appearance. "

Maybe. Or maybe it's a legitimate humorous point considering that she was, in fact, a beauty queen, something that the Republican Party has promoted to some extent in introducing Palin to the nation at large. Joe's an old dude with hair plugs. He's essentially saying that he ain't no beauty queen. Look, I won't be at all surprised if Joe says something asinine about Palin at some point in the future, but this wasn't it.

Also, I'm too young to remember, but I would like to know what the immediate response to Geraldine Ferraro's selection as VP was. I realize that Mondale's campaign may have been flailing a bit harder at that point, but can someone enlighten me as to why the similarities aren't being brought up more? Because superficially, the Palin pick looks a lot like the Ferraro pick: while Palin was picked to appeal to women and religious conservatives, Ferraro was selected to appeal to women and blue collar whites. What's the difference, if there is any? And if there isn't, why isn't this meme being pushed?

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Tim Connor — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 23:26:07 -0000

Asher is right. Republicans ARE more cynical. In general, this allows them to be more dishonest while pretending to virtue.

This is also why they take their core philosophy from Louis the XV: "L'apres moi, le deluge." ("After me the flood.")

A real values crowd, if narcisism and solipsism can be called values.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Apsaras — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 22:54:17 -0000

In other news, Joe Liebermann called 9/11 a natural disaster.

Yeah, guys, I think you can keep him.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

rikyrah — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 22:34:13 -0000

Well, I'm a woman and I believe she's an unqualified, relgious fanatic.

That's not based on sexism...just facts.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

socctty — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:53:30 -0000

@Freddie, September 2, 2008 5:06 PM

Historically, voters vote based on the presidential nominee and the VP choice is something more important to pundits. I don't see any reason things will be different this time.

That's probably because Presidential candidates usually don't make laughably stupid and short-sighted choices for their VP nominee. It's like fantasy football: you can't win the league on draft day but you sure as fuck can lose it then.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

socctty — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:16:40 -0000

Oh, and according to this logic, Biden is a not-so-much-closeted homosexual because of the compliments he gave towards Barack Obama. Does anyone really expect the Republicans to play that ang -- oh, wait, they're Republicans.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

socctty — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:14:22 -0000

I love it. Gender issues must be a less-sensitive issue than race issues, because the gender card took about 4 days before it was played. You better be god-damn sure when you play the race card, but you can fuck around with the gender card all you want.

As a side note: what exactly was it when McCain called her his "soul mate"? Yes, that McCain - the adulterous one who left his wife to get with a younger beauty queen. Now, I'm not sayin'... I'm just sayin'.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

KevDog — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:50:36 -0000

Here's my proposal: I'll go for criticism of Palin's experience being sexist if Carly will agree that criticism of Obama's experience is racist.

I don't think they'll make the trade.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Asher — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:41:01 -0000

Me: Then again, polling on Palin isn't that disastrous - but I suspect that when you see, for example, 45% in the CNN poll say that she's qualified, those people are almost all diehard Republicans.

Tiparillo: And I would be willing to bet this is the high water mark for this question.

Me: Not sure. I suspect she'll have a surprisingly good speech tomorrow and that they'll do a great video package for her. Her press availability's definitely going to be highly restricted. Then it all comes down to the debate with Biden. The people at 538 say she's a surprisingly good debater. I think there's really more upside than downside here. How much worse can her press get?

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

JK — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:14:16 -0000

Carly Fiorina needs to shut her yap. She's a bitter, frustrated woman who resents the fact that she wasn't chosen to be McCain's running mate.

Sarah Palin is simply not ready for primetime and she'll be joining the Not Ready for Primetime Players on SNL the day after she and McCain get trounced by Obama and Biden.

Say goodnight Sarah. You are about to become a footnote to history.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

caole — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:58:56 -0000

It doesnt matter to me what she has done. Obama has ran a successful campaign for 24 mos.and engaged in a grueling primary race and won the nomination with over 18M votes. He earned it.

She was simply appointed. Not the same to me.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Whitey — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:38:58 -0000

You know, if they were smart they'd hold off on going after Biden for this one, considering that he's likely to make a bigger gaffe than saying she's better looking than him.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

martin — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:35:47 -0000

"I wouldn't really call Biden's remarks chuavinist or misogynistic, but the attention to Palin's looks is clearly due to her gender."

You do realize that Biden previously had commented that Obama was better looking in a similarly humorous manner.

And if that wasn't enough, Bush commented that Obama was better looking in a similarly humorous manner.

Too bad these men can't stop making what apparently are clearly homosexual advances...

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Tiparillo — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:23:27 -0000

Then again, polling on Palin isn't that disastrous - but I suspect that when you see, for example, 45% in the CNN poll say that she's qualified, those people are almost all diehard Republicans.

And I would be willing to bet this is the high water mark for this question.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Deborah — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:04:00 -0000

I wouldn't really call Biden's remarks chuavinist or misogynistic, but the attention to Palin's looks is clearly due to her gender.

Mitt Romney and John Edwards were mocked for their good looks. Game show host. "I'm so pretty...."

The Republican strategy is emerging as:

Reporter A: What about Palin's a) links to this secessionist group, b) stunning earmark success as mayor, c) bridge to nowhere lie?

Surrogate: Oh how dreadful that you should a) express such a sexist sentiment b) drag her pregnant daughter into this.

But apparently God gave me so much more than I could have imagined. Unless....is it at all possible Palin get dropped then Lieberman or Romney picked after all? I am certainly not worthy of such bounty.

If this happens I hope both you and the Focus on the Family folk who prayed for torrential downpours in Denver (did they also pray for the natural gas pipeline?) will seriously consider god's messages to you.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

jasmine — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:19:04 -0000

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing_car_wash.html

Personally, I would assume that a potential future president would be able to run a car-wash. You know, those high-pressure, complex, executive jobs... But perhaps I just have excessively high standards?

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

davido — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:15:06 -0000

First things first: lay off Olympia Snow! For a woman of a "certain age," she's getting it done.

Freddie, unless you're John Kennedy choosing Lyndon Johnson, a VP can't help you win but a choice that turns into a disaster and leads people to question both your sincerity and your seriousness might help you lose.

Think about this. When male governors have been nominated for President in the past and attacked for a lack of foreign policy experience, their campaigns haven't resorted to touting their command of the state National Guard or the proximity of their states to international borders as a proxy for readiness to be Commander in Chief. McCain has to do this because readiness to lead compared to Obama has been his entire argument. That argument has not not only been undercut but the desperate attempt to keep it alive by claiming that she has experience only makes it worse.

It's a bit like a criminal who, stopped by the cops and believing wrongly that he's been caught in the act, saying "I didn't do it" over and over.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

MNPundit — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:00:33 -0000

The proper response:

"Sexist? I'll tell you what's sexist ____ (Insert GOP Surrogate's name Here). That John McSame--McCain that is, expected to attract supporters of Senator Clinton with his reckless selection of Governor Palin BECAUSE she is a woman. A woman with positions like _____(insert some of Palin's Christianist and extreme positions). Position Senator Clinton has opposed for her entire career in public life!" (End on Outraged tone.)

Damn that Bitch Fiorina to hell!

Note: I have referred to that spokesperson as "that Bitch Fiorina" in all contexts for about 8 years, since her actions ruined a brilliant, beautiful, progressive, caring company in HP and turned it into a heartless husk.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Andy — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:50:05 -0000

> Carly Fiorina said she was "appalled by the

> Obama campaign's attempts to belittle Governor

> Sarah Palin's experience. The facts are that

> Sarah Palin has made more executive decisions

> as a Mayor and Governor than Barack Obama has

> made in his life. Because of Hillary Clinton's

> historic run for the Presidency

Good heavens. Seriously, there are Sunday’s talking points. Doesn’t the former CEO of HP have a blackberry, or something?

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Jonah — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:42:56 -0000

ty, I disagree, but I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

janine, good point. All the good papers here are weeklies, so I developed a Metro habit out of boredom on the other days of the week. But, yeah.

Re: Wait for it...Wait for it...

Titanic deck chairs — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:34:23 -0000

Not so rough, fellas!!!