The Atlantic - Latest Comments in The split

Re: The split

SeanH — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:15:01 -0000

There's a flip side to the pettiness: if hotel rooms and honorifics were all it would have taken to get big Clinton supporters solidly in the Obama camp, then why in the world did his campaign not just humor them?

Like eric k said, it'd just be something else. You can give a bully your milk money when he demands it, but all you'll accomplish is ensuring he'll be back for your lunch money later on.

Folks would sell the freedom of their daughters for the right to be angry.

Loved that line, TNC.

Re: The split

Rich — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:24:08 -0000

T-N, you're the last guy, perhaps *literally* the last guy, who should be surprised that people would do something stupid and self-defeating because they weren't "respected." I've read you, and thanks to the miracle of modern technology I've seen and heard you, recount the role that impulse had in your neighborhood's crisis, and among African-American men generally. The impulse to do something stupid in defense of your slighted respect isn't limited to any one demographic, you know.

Re: The split

Hector — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:46:43 -0000

Is Mr. Coates aware that African American people are much more likely than Whites to be the victim of an abortion? Over 14 million Black babies since 1973. The African American community would be 35% larger today if abortion had not been legalized. It would have much more demographic weight and political influence.

It is no accident that the old racist-eugenicicts were enthusiastic advocates of abortion.

Re: The split

Asher — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:30:44 -0000

Most practicing lawyers, those who actually practice federal or constitutional law, believe McCain will nominate a John Roberts type, and Roe may not be overruled, but chipped away into irrelevance.

I agree that a McCain nominee will look a lot like Roberts, but what exactly is a John Roberts type? On abortion, we don't yet know. Personally I'd be thrilled if Roe were overturned, but I doubt Roberts would vote that way; he's too concerned about the public stature of the Court.

Re: The split

mattf — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:36:53 -0000

Let's see, we've got an inarguably unpopular president, a tanking economy, and a couple of grinding wars that promise to proceed indefinitely. If anyone could screw up an election in these circumstances, it's the Democrats.

Re: The split

eric k — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:15:28 -0000

Dewb,

Nah, then it would just be something else.

Re: The split

Dewb — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:26:12 -0000

There's a flip side to the pettiness: if hotel rooms and honorifics were all it would have taken to get big Clinton supporters solidly in the Obama camp, then why in the world did his campaign not just humor them?

Re: The split

sv — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:13:37 -0000

yeah, i think the best thing for you to do with regard to this non-story is to ignore it. unless there really are a whole lot of "PUMAs" ready to vote for McCain, which would justify all this coverage, but i haven't gotten a sense of that at all.

Re: The split

Redstar — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:08:10 -0000

Ta-nehisi,

Have you read the Media Matters piece that someone left for you in your Bill Clinton post? Don't you want to stop buying into the press hype about this Clinton-Obama feud?

Do you know any super wealthy people? This is a non-story...shocker that rich folks would be bitching over not be treated like the kings and queens they believe themselves to be...

Seriously, time to start ignoring this nonsense...

Re: The split

Shine — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:07:43 -0000

Hector:

Douthat's blog can be found beneath the Voices tag, between Sullivan and McArdle.

Move along please, nothing here for you to read.

Re: The split

Hector — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:01:15 -0000

Oh, right, Mr. Coates. That would be the "freedom" of their daughters to kill their babies in the womb. Real important freedom there.

The 'freedom' to have an abortion is the same kind of freedom as the 'freedom' to own slaves which the Democratic Party also used to defend. Nancy Pelosi uses the same kind of rhetoric as the odious Stephen Douglas.

Re: The split

Carrington Ward — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:47:23 -0000

Asher:

It complicates matters somewhat that Obama has been asking his supporters to help retire the Clinton's debt.

Re: The split

Futile — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:44:17 -0000

The behavior of Clinton supporters borders on mental illness.

Re: The split

Shine — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:40:52 -0000

You mean John Roberts and Sam Alito? Oh, you mean Bush 41? That was 20+ years ago, before the federal courts were packed with conservative, pro-life judges.

Screw legal academics. Anyone who spent anytime in law school will tell how often law professors are wrong. Most practicing lawyers, those who actually practice federal or constitutional law, believe McCain will nominate a John Roberts type, and Roe may not be overruled, but chipped away into irrelevance.

Re: The split

DamnYankees — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:38:20 -0000

To Asher:

The point isn't that they are obligated to give money to Obama. The point is they are refusing for *unbelievably petty and stupid reasons*. Not only that, they are actively hurting the effort to unite the party by stirring up resentment and pouting to the media all the time.

It's a pathetic display of short-sighted narcissism.

Re: The split

Joel — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:34:53 -0000

Tales of stupidity are abound everywhere. The problem is, the petty and the pathetic are usually ignored by responsible adults. But whoever said that responsible adults were involved in the medi-ocracy business?

Re: The split

Asher — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:34:06 -0000

Look, I can understand Obama supporters being annoyed by this sort of behavior, but you write as if there's some sort of moral duty for Clinton fund-raisers to ante up for Obama, lest their daughters lose their reproductive rights and gas goes up to twenty a gallon. It's not that deep. If they don't like the guy, they don't have to give him money. Others will. They're still shellacking McCain on fund-raising, they just might not be able to afford that computer system they want that allows them to microtarget voters by favorite flavor of ice cream. And about selling the freedom of their daughters, have you noticed that since Roe was decided, rightly or wrongly, we've had a cumulative 20 years of Republican Presidents and Roe's still on the books? Why do you suppose? Most legal academics who study judicial nominations believe that Republicans simply don't want to overturn Roe because they're afraid of massive political backlash, so they nominate a conservative to please the base and a moderate to protect themselves politically. It's not an accident that Reagan and Bush both nominated pro-choice judges.

Re: The split

socctty — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:30:09 -0000

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/thru-wednesday.html

As a side note, this is the first convention I've ever bothered to watch. This shit is pretty boring. It's the same crappy speech with a different voice, as nauseum.

Re: The split

DamnYankees — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:29:40 -0000

So Obama is giving the nicer hotels to people who have stuck with him and helped him win. So? This is, you know, normal. It takes a really twisted mind to think that you should be treated better than someone's friend *because* you're not their friend.

Re: The split

Shine — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:28:08 -0000

Yes, this what the suffragettes envisioned when the fought for the 19th amendment. The right hold up ancient stereotypes about women scorned.

Still, methinks this is blown way, way out of proportion. Not so much the HillRaisers story. They aren't getting cool ambassadorships and overnight stays in the Lincoln Bedroom, so they have no incentive to donate to Obama, so I think that story is dead on. One thing I've underestimated is the self-centeredness and sense of entitlement of many F of C's. But then again, we are discussing the Big Chill generation. It's all about them and their resentments. Hunter Thompson called them Generation of Swine. Think it is an appropriate label.

Yet, I think these PUMA types are being blown way, way out of proportion. Just the rotting Traditional Media looking for conflict.