The Atlantic - Latest Comments in The Perils Of Moving On Up

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

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Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

AhYup — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:53:33 -0000

Yes, the only stuff really worth paying for at this point I think are sources like the Economist that have top people all over the world. I'm not much for the editorial content but they don't overdo it and you can know what's going on. I've been quite interested in Iran for a while and knew who Ahmadinejad was and had and idea what was coming down when he first ran years back from subscribing to that magazine. I recently read a book by and American-Iranian journalist who was living in Iran in '05' and apparently nobody there knew he was and it came out of the blue. None of the big American papers had the slightest clue and didn't again this year. I think one of the most telling events of the last several months was the wanna be comedian from the Post going off on Nico Pitney because he had the audacity to know what was going on and outshine the great insiders. The very same buffoon went way over the top with the Hillary "bitch" routing last week. The right wing media "alternative" media has far more PT Barnum in it than anything else. And there ,of course, FOX new's biggest draw is the guy who was apparently surprised that people in a fancy Harlem Resuraunt weren't acting all ghetto. It was the most blatant display of actual racism I've seen and it didn't matter since that's the clown show and all. We obsess more on celebrities and TV shows than what's going on in the world.

So what really stands out here to me is that with all this stellar communication technology we are a country obsessed with entertainment. Maureen Dowd ,in my view anyhow, writes utter dreck but gets a star spot in the NYT becuase she oh-so cleverly combines hackish political cliches with contemporary pop culture references. It doesn't matter if they actually make sense or not because its really the aesthetics that her readers like. Even this blog which consistently produces more enlightening output than most big papers editorial pages falls into a certain amount of that. (That's not a critique, just a point of who we Americans are).

After damning him as a racist it occured to me that it might actually be worse. However dangerous a racial rant shows somebody actually making an attempt to understand the world around them. Ferguson seemed to be shooting for the Maureen Dowd kind of thing here but did it with the flair of a high functioning autistic. This is sort of like that pointless knockoffs of Tarantino flicks that got pumped out in the 90's with all of the style and no substance. There is no real human or political understanding whatsoever in the column. Its the cliche ridden piffle of somebody with nothing at all to say. Whatever smarts he may have it is total vapidity this betrays. He's not thinking or coming to any particular conclusions and is in fact so utterly clueless about the culture he's writing about that he doesn't get that this sort of reference can blow up very badly on anybody in his position.

Don Imus was another example of this. He was never a racist, he treated everyone and everything with exactly that same crude level of disrespect. That was what brought him fame and fortune. For that reason the big shot clique stayed with him until Gwen Iffil wrote an editorial pointing out that words do in fact mean things and those girls did not deserve to have that said about them no matter what. Whatever he meant it was simply going to far. That brought out all of the critics who weren't quite speaking up at this pointed and silenced the big shots who had been. I get the impression that they still didn't get it though. Its as if they can't, this is all entertainment to them.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:07:03 -0000

This is all fine, but I think you meant to put this in the Open Thread.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

DaveinHackensack — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:51:00 -0000

Thanks for highlighting my comment, Ta-Nehisi. After engaging in a bit of Maoist self-criticism on my own blog earlier today, it's nice to see I got something partially right elsewhere. Good point you make, too, about how someone with a brand or reputation like Ferguson's will often get more leeway from his editors.

This discussion reminds me of something I wrote a couple of weeks ago, about another embarrassing (in a different way) piece from an established financial paper (in this case, Barron's, Dow Jone's weekly companion to the WSJ):

When journalists lament the decline of the print business, they ought to consider that the Google- and Craig's List-powered disruption of the advertising model isn't the only reason for print's decline; so is the decline of journalism itself. A lot of what passes for journalism today simply isn't worth paying for in any medium.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Sol — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:09:19 -0000

Remember (the) Bismarck!

"Bismarck said that in England progressive parties take power to introduce reactionary measures while reactionary parties take power to introduce progressive measures, and Disraeli's "Tory democracy" followed this rule (as did Bismarck himself when he pioneered the German welfare state in order to dish the Social Democrats)."

This comes from a review of a biography of Disraeli. The bio was written by an emerging intellectual superstar named Adam Kirsch. Google him for evidence. The reviewer is Geoffrey Wheatcroft, no dummy himself. The review is in the New York Review of Books: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22118, December 4, 2008.

Closer to home: affirmative action and the Environmental Protection Agency are Nixon-era creations. Clinton,for his part, opened the barn door and let the Wall Street horse thieves in.

This is not a pitch to support right wing candidates so they can fix the world. It's just a reminder that some years ago, the boxer-philosopher Leon Spinks, who once defeated Mohammad Ali and had gone from heavyweight champ to homeless in ten years, noted that "Life sure is a funny thing!" Wise words, indeed!

And Former 'liberal' President Clinton is now launching a challenge to Former 'liberal' President Carter for the title of Best Former President. In office, neither could get out of the way of his own ego. Former Heavyweight Champion Leon Spinks, for one, is probably not surprised.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

AhYup — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:43:05 -0000

I think Elmer Fudd is much more apt particularly considering the prominence of the great white hunter and histrionics about their guns in the GOP and all.

Which leads us to Obama as Bugs Bunny which works. He's clever, charismatic, and its hard to be sure if his enemies blow themselves up solely out of ineptitude or they get helped along.

Then that reminds me of Brer' Rabbit. The brier patch does tend to pop into my mind every time I hear some bombastic threat of retribution from the right.

Considering what Disney did with it I suppose that somebody would find a reason to get offended about that. But with the full history of the trickster folk tales and all of the subtexts and fears paranoid and otherwise considered it would make a hell of lot more interesting meditation on Obama possible fortunes than Felix.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

JohnMcC — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:30:59 -0000

Wow...all this talk and no suggestions for other politicians/parties and analogies to cartoons. I'm impressed. It's kind of like being in a room full of people who hear the WilliamTellOverture and DON'T think of the LoneRanger.

Myself, when I read the Ferguson column I immediately thought--yeah, and the Repubs are Wiley Coyote.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

PeteL — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:20:01 -0000

After further review, it seems possible that Ferguson's invocation of Felix the Cat may be like a really smart guy version of that councilman in California, you know the one with those inappropriate emails and all those black friends.

If so, this reinforces something TNC says repeatedly about racism: its ambiguous. Regarding white folks who make derogatory analogies/comments about blacks, seems like they typically fall into two broad categories:

The first truly wants to live in a colorblind world, and they are uncomfortable with the baggage that comes with our shared history of discrimination, which they attempt to "blip" over by exposing blacks to the same off-color humor they would inflict on their white friends.

The second would join the KKK in a heartbeat if it had the same status as the Rotary Club.

As always, we don't know how many folks are in each group because, officially, everyone belongs to that first group.

The learning for white folks: if you really are uncomfortable with the baggage, work out your issues in a place like this, where the worst that can happen is you get banned (about which it seems like TNC is usually pretty gracious).

Professor Ferguson, by contrast, can look forward to submitting a paper 15 years hence, and having it returned with a snarky "Felix the Cat?" splashed in red ink over the front page by a rival reviewer.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

edianes — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:26:11 -0000

The Financial Times is owned by the Pearson Group, not Murdoch.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

djbtak — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:54:38 -0000

If you read Ferguson's account of the British Empire (esp. in Africa) and contrast it to, say, Caroline Elkins, you always get the sense that he is in some way engaged in salvaging the "good intentions" of colonization, in a way we're used to in white history. How much of this is strategy is hard to tell, but the outcome is that he is quite prepared to believe that he can describe the world however he likes, and call it like he sees it without needing to spend much time considering the different relationships audiences might have to his metaphors and descriptions. This is, as you suggest, also a relationship to the "big idea" - an idea that public culture is already comfortable with, as opposed to a big idea that people are uncomfortable with. Perhaps it's less a deliberate troll (though it is that) and more that the deep need to describe and domesticate blackness that runs through his work is not just the structure of public racism, but also something deeply embedded in his/our psyche...

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

G.D. — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:50:49 -0000

That Baldwin piece owns. Easily the best celebrity profile I've ever read.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

PeteL — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:46:48 -0000

One thing does stand out in Ferguson's attempt at edgy, insouciant hipness: Obama as "lucky".

In some respect, we all are lucky, right? But we have it on pretty good authority that Obama worked his a** off for a long time to get where he is, which sort of contravenes the version of luck Ferguson intended.

In any event, in a Presidential election cycle that introduced two 40-something media darlings, its quite something to look at *OBAMA* and see the luck involved.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Kaaha — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:37:58 -0000

Ferguson reminds me of Rush Limbaugh, they are both white and use bad analogies.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Sorn — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:25:44 -0000

I need to stop commenting. Dogma References are probably going too far.

Apologies.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

dmf — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:13:11 -0000

TNC, I appreciate your insider perspective here but as I remember it you came to realize that it was not your job to think for other people, and Andrew S. is now obeying the anti-Siren voices that call one back to the real world, so there are thoughtful ways to play the game without becoming a caricature or a cartoon. Being a "star Harvard professor" may be part of the problem here as the academic star system is a sign of the top down capitulation of the academy to marketing interests, so it might be to some advantage after all to having worked one's way up from being a no-name outsider. If you would care to share more of your relationships with editors, and or the pressures to create/maintain a kind of name-brand character/identity, someday that would also be appreciated.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Sorn — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:03:14 -0000

So Calvin. How is Rufus anyway?

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Kochevnik81 — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:52:36 -0000

Now that I've said that Ferguson behaved stupidly, let me say that he is welcome to come up the street from his Harvard digs to my place to have a beer, but only if he agrees to sit down with Felix the Cat. And no Bud Lights at this summit please...

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Sorn — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:48:37 -0000

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Kochevnik81 — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:43:30 -0000

I've listened to some interviews with Ferguson, and I've read a little of his work. I would have to say that he has some very brilliant insights on economics and history, but that sometimes he feels the need to write in little gimmicks in order to make his work seem "relevant" - one example popping out to me being the opening of his history of the 20th century "War of the World" on the morning of Sept. 11, 1901, even though this date in itself has no significance whatsoever.

His column opener seems to be something along similar lines, basically: Ferguson is an expert on the Depression + Ferguson is writing about Obama and the current economic situation + Ferguson needs some attention-grabbing gimmick to tie the two together = Felix the Cat and the completely sloppy attempt at explaining what this has to do with pretty much anything. And the sad fact is that on a certain level, he has accomplished what he set out to do, namely to get people to talk about his column.

I go back to James Fallows' original criticism of the article, namely that it is weird for Ferguson, who expends no small ponds of ink defending his supposedly wounded academic integrity against Paul Krugman, the Economist, etc. to turn around and write something so monumentally mindless. But part of me feels that this is bait that has been intentionally planted: Ferguson has pounced on writers and academics such as Johann Hari and Priyamvada Gopal for accusing him of racism/unreconstructed imperialism before. He's an expert in counterfactualism after all...on some level he's playing the academic troll.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

eric k — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:41:37 -0000

It's a wonder people don't start repeating themselves.

that was a joke right?

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Sorn — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:39:33 -0000

Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

It must be really hard to be a professional comment-journalist/writer. I mean it's hard enough to be a thoughtfull member of this blog. I could only imagine what it's like to be a professional opinion guy. It's a wonder people don't start repeating themselves.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

anna perez — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:24:35 -0000

Almost always, I do love the thoughtfulness of this site, particularly the comments, an oasis in the internet sea of stupidity. And I could explain again that "luck is when preparation meets opportunity."

But today, nah--fuck it. Ferguson was doing exactly the same thing that other cynical, race baiting, profiteering pundits are doing:using the anti-Black racism which they perceive in their audiences, to spice up their offerings.

Notice I did not say Ferguson was a racist, because I don't know the dude. He very probably is not, (tho' the Biden/Casper observation is spot on) but this column is at best lazy and at worst, dangerous.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:11:46 -0000

I guess I'm more inclined to see the excuse being offered here as more damming than the original assumptions. What you pop out under pressure is more of a straight line to the id. If you'd have to apply full consideration under the best of circumstances to not notice how this makes you look you have a problem.

Well that's good, because it isn't an excuse. It's an explanation of how the field works. This isn't to let anyone off the hook. Please--damn away.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

peep — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:09:13 -0000

Krazy Kat is in love with a mouse that throws brick at him/her. Not exactly a cool cat in my understanding of the term.

Re: The Perils Of Moving On Up

AhYup — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:00:50 -0000

I'm not sure if I should be offended are just call it stupid. I remember at least equally dumb columns about Clinton. Why you'd call a president "lucky" when they had no choice but to start of their term with something as god-awful as the stimulus bill and inherent the disastrous mess left by the Bushies everywhere.

I will fully attest to being one of those grumpy white people who rolls my eyes at charges of racism with about the same frequency that I roll my eyes at FOX new but WTF? Tossing the word "black" in there along with Felix the cat doesn't make sense to begin with and its hard to red the column and come up with a reason that its not a gratuitous and pointless mention of race.

I really detest it when pundits call a politician "lucky" anyhow. Its just dumb, timing and strategy is everything. Its like calling a great comedian lucky for his excellent timing. Presented with the same opportunities 99.9% of us can't come close to pulling it off. Its just a way of discounting their talents I think. Tossed in with this it just looks really bad.

I guess I'm more inclined to see the excuse being offered here as more damming than the original assumptions. What you pop out under pressure is more of a straight line to the id. If you'd have to apply full consideration under the best of circumstances to not notice how this makes you look you have a problem.

Sheesh, the best excuse I could think of would be "Sorry, I was really stoned and watching Felix that cat and it seemed like a good idea"