The Atlantic - Latest Comments in The Media Death Spiral

Re: The Media Death Spiral

bushman — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:24:30 -0000

Could it be remotely possible the demise of newspapers has little to do with paper to electronic, as in Internet conversion, and really about the decline of independent, critical and objective reporting?

Remember when the media reported the news instead of trying to make news?

Remember when media outlets had actual international news bureau locations which understood local in country politics and issues instead of relying on Associated Press for every story?

Remember when the difference between "real news" to political commentary was understood and the difference clearly labeled and kept in perspective?

Remember how the media and newspapers worked before control was consolidated into a handful of multi-national corporations such as GE, Viacom, Disney and Ruppert Murdoch's News Corporation with specific agendas which rewrote the rules of what is and what is not news?

Put another way, could it just simply be its not the media communication form driving the business but rather the demise of objective and critical reporting?

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Bill_Woods — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:45:14 -0000

Don't think of it as 'solid waste'.

Think of it as 'carbon sequestration'.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Doc Merlin — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:23:04 -0000

Here you go. The science is terrible, but its an example.

http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Flare-Novel-Larry-Burkett/dp/1881273075

Re: The Media Death Spiral

M. Simon — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:28:31 -0000

And yet people can change the channel. Why don't they? Why is CNN falling like a rock and Fox is holding its own?

It's not like there aren't alternatives. Is it that people don't know they are being conned?

And how did that Air America thing work out for you? Well I guess it got Franken elected once the right (left?) votes had been found. So there is that.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

bigyank — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:45:54 -0000

Hagios and others have commented that papers like the NY Times have "valuable" assets that are worth something. Maybe or maybe not. But Warren Buffett was asked recently what he thought of the newsprint media as an investment class. His response was a very terse one. "They are NOT a value at ANY price". Wow. Never one to mince words the Oracle of Omaha just sent a shiver down the spine of Carlos Slim. As for my opinion the NY Times and Washington Post will both file for bankruptcy BEFORE the next Presidential election (sorry liberals, including you Meghan). All I can say is good riddance. In fact if I were a billionaire living in NYC I would spend my entire day handing out dollar bills to people asking them NOT to buy the NYT. That would be a good example of philanthropy at its best. The newspapers are like a dog with rabies. They need to be put out of their misery.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

doctorpat — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:41:10 -0000

So you're saying:

1. Start a newspaper

2. Give it away free so to get circulation numbers up.

3. Print loads of articles criticizing "globalist" powers that be (that's a new word for me by the way, what does it mean exactly?)

4. Sell out

5. Profit!

Anyone want to back me in a new business venture?

Re: The Media Death Spiral

doctorpat — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:33:18 -0000

I believe the last time I remember buying fish and chips it was still wrapped in newspaper.

Mind you, that was a long time ago.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

doctorpat — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:32:00 -0000

Legal notices also contribute to continued profitability.

So that revenue stream lasts until 3 seconds after a legislative change...

Re: The Media Death Spiral

doctorpat — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:27:17 -0000

5 to 7 ideologies

Say, (in the USA) Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian, Socialist, Conservative.

YOu can probably come up with a lot more in a minutes thought.

Feminist, Male-ist, Evangelical Christian, Catholic, Muslim (probably several types here alone), Chinese Diaspora, PRC, Japanese, Technophile, Luddite, ....

There are probably dozens of different cohesive groups that can investigate and push their own agendas.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

doctorpat — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:21:03 -0000

A repeat of the 1859 Solar flares would. For a few years anyway.

Strange I haven't seen any SF based on that, because it was in 1859, there are heaps of records about it.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Ryan W. — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:49:26 -0000

By and large, the same people who are so distraught at the demise of legacy newspapers and the perceived loss of liberal editorial boards are the same people who celebrate craigslist's anti-profit "let the Internet be free" philosophy.

I'm not sure if I've seen that. Those saying "let the Internet be free" tend, more often than not, to be techo-libertarian rather than standard issue progressive. They tend to put more value on technological innovation, or at least the liberty needed to support technological innovation, than progressives do.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

rateater — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:11:13 -0000

"The median decline is well into the teens."

Well, there's an easy fact to check... but no, the median decline is actually 11.61%. "Such is blogging," I suppose.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Rexxous — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:39:23 -0000

I too used to work in a newsroom, but I disagree completely that "there [is] certainly a mix of political philosophy" in newsrooms. I found that most reporters are so blind to their own liberalism, they just can't see it. I think it stems from an undiscerning assumption that fellow reporters and editors are "just like in the real world," that is, that they pretty much represent the full range of political thought in America.

Just ask how many of your colleagues vote Republican, believe in the superiority of free-enterprise capitalism, are adamantly against abortion, own a gun for self-protection? Are these silly questions to ask? No, because in any given newsroom, you will find the vast majority are 100% the opposite: always vote Democratic or Socialist (if a candidate is on the ticket), think capitalism is basically flawed, deeply believe in abortion on demand, have never been near a gun and do not want to be.

I bet most people in newsrooms would dismiss these questions with a chuckle, but these issues are fundamentally important to millions of Americans -- few if any of whom work in newsrooms.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

escapefromobamastan — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:38:53 -0000

In the small town I am from, the daily newspaper spoke against the Trans Texas Corridor which globalist want to link Mexico, US and Canada, spoke against Rudy Guiliano's law firm which has been busily robbing Texans of their land using the new eminent domain laws and criticized our traitorous, bought-off, whorish, so-called representatives who continually stab is in the back.

So Macquarie Corporation, a globalist corporation, purchased that newspaper and many other small town Texas papers to shut them up and cut off all information on this subject (and others). So the elite now control what is said in these newspapers, they lie by omission. Now, no one wants to purchase these policitally correct, First Amendment busting rags.

Therefore, the fall of so many newspapers.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

circleglider — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:27:02 -0000

Let's face it, there is lot of evidence that most Americans are center to left of center.

You can't be serious. Or, you need to get out more often. Or both.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

albatross — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:04:16 -0000

The useful value added on national stories would involve reporting on the impact of some national story on your local market. But I wonder how much interest there is in this--as a society, we've shifted more and more control away from local people and toward central authorities. The federal government, the national media, and big companies in retail and banking have a huge impact on our lives. How much does it make sense for me to pay attention to my local government and the local scene, especially if I see myself as living here until the next job change, when I'll uproot my family and go wherever the next gig is?

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Edgar — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:18:01 -0000

Newspapers are either vanity projects for their owners or a useful conduit for in-kind campaign contributions. Kaplan Inc will keep the money-losing Washington Post and its affiliated money-losing echo chamber apparatus (Newsweek, Slate, etc) running only so long as it needs to keep the college test prep industry unregulated and free of any consumer-protection oversight. Others will go to private ownership, see for example, the Anschutz Company's purchase of the Examiner chain. From what I understand, the free give away papers like the Washington Examiner are doing very well financially because of controlled production costs.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Gary Scott — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:10:51 -0000

Depends on what you mean by "newsroom." In my experience, reporters generally tended to tilt left, but there was certainly a mix of political philosophy just like in the real world - one of my favorite colleagues was an evangelical Christian. Business reporters are much more likely to tilt right. Editors were a mixed bag, but plenty tilted to the right, and more so at the managing and executive editor levels. Publishers dined openly at Lincoln Club and Chamber breakfasts.

None of which has anything to do with why circulation is dropping across the board.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

rl1182 — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:33:06 -0000

Has anyone heard of "conflicted conservatives"? I'm not so sure we can rely on all individuals to accurately self-report a mapping of their preferences onto ideological labels.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

Loyola — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:14:36 -0000

Recycling costs cities money despite what the newspapers tell you and to a degree recycling programs are a government subsidy to newspapers.

Newspapers love recycling and environmental programs because those programs mitigate, at public expense, the huge waste problems newspapers generate.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

TallDave — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:31:29 -0000

Is Carlos Slim selling?

Re: The Media Death Spiral

TallDave — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:28:06 -0000

Too good to check.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

TallDave — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:25:06 -0000

Yes, very good point. I was thinking about that too. It's much easier to get web traffic than to get people to sign up for your newspaper.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

TallDave — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:23:30 -0000

As for liberals self-selecting into journalism, what an odd statement. Are conservatives too dumb to infiltrate mediums that still have tremendous influence over how people behave?

They're generally less interested in advocacy.

Let's face it, there is lot of evidence that most Americans are center to left of center

Nope.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx

Also, comparing networks to cable is a bit silly.

Re: The Media Death Spiral

MoReport — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:56:18 -0000

@ Tom Swift (Sr. or Jr. ? :)__NY Times decline

If they are going out of business anyway, why not

go out with a Bang: Print an entire issue of truthful

reporting and analysis on the Obama Administration;

could be the start of a beautiful friendship with

a whole new readership.