The Atlantic - Latest Comments in The journey into white music continues...

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Daphne — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:06:35 -0000

JR, let me try to answer your question.

I suppose the music threads are partly a conversational tool of TNC - like the good host at the dinner table, he wants to set us off on a tangent and get us talking to each other and get a little bit worked up. And that's great.

TNC's music threads probably aren't even about exploring music made by white artists, contrary to black artists, as much as him giving free reign to new ideas. If his readers feel free to participate, regardless of our backgrounds and nationalities, we can get to some level of truth about what all this music means to us.

I'm sure most of us here as readers have the same motley collection of very different genres. I do not buy for one moment that African American people as a rule can not find their way in the record store, (or the internet equivalent, whatever) to the section where they sell Bach and Mozart or Ravi Chankar or Indian ghazals. We all listen to some Klingon Opera once in a while, so we all probably also listen to some Verdi once in a while.

Don't you remember with some songs, some music, the sheer soul uplifting joy you felt when you heard it for the first time? Suppose someone reads this and thinks I need to get myself a helping of Rumours? Or Bowies Heroes? Or Skynyrd? What if that person gets the same enjoyment, the same soul moment we once had? That would be great. It could be anything by the way, even Hotel California, a song a sincerely loathe, but maybe someone else will enjoy it immensely.

I remember listening to Massive Attacks Unfinished Sympathy for the first time and thinking: what the hell just happened here? That was a life changer for me.

Unfortunately, these moments get scarce, as you get older. That's one of the boring things about aging.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

zeitgeist — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:44:49 -0000

and to make this more relevant to those younger than I am. . . :)

mike noted the extraordinary production on Rumours, which was engineered by Ken Caillat, father of Colby Caillat, she of "Bubbly" fame.

and while the FM discussion has been all well and fine re white music, I suppose if one really wants to go back to the beginning, Buddy Holly's mix of very whitened blues and choir-boy love songs is a great place to start. From there you see the world of pop and rock music branch out over and over and can almost draw a "whiteness" spectrum - Elvis and the Stones? A much less white music than the Beatles and the folkies, for example. heck, this sounds like a great book project!

Re: The journey into white music continues...

jr — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:31:12 -0000

The topic of music brings out the teenager in many of us, it seems; "I hate that!" and "You must listen to this!!"

The responses here make me realize just how many genres there are, for whole swathes have been left out (hardcore, grindcore, industrial; all surely "white". . .)!

What is white people's music? And which white people, exactly? For every recommendation you get, you'll hear a counter. So, perhaps you should turn on the radio.

Here in rural white America (where I live), I'd bet that Lynyrd Skynyrd is #1 on any bar jukebox. If I never heard "Free Bird" again, I'd be delighted.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

mike — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:24:41 -0000

big bad wolf said all I had to say, only better, so I'll just reiterate: Fleetwood Mac's "white album" and Rumours are both remarkable milestones. All the dissing in the thread has been either snobbish or ignorant. (Although I will concede that they've been overplayed to the point where I can't listen objectively.)

The production on Rumours still blows my mind. Get yourself some headphones and dive into "Gold Dust Woman".

Re: The journey into white music continues...

bdbd — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:28:21 -0000

on the topic of music, I wonder how this Cadillac Records movie will be? Jeffrey Wright as Muddy Waters? I have never NOT enjoyed seeing Jeffrey Wright in a movie, and I know he played Colin Powell and all that, but Muddy Waters is about as major a role as there can be, in my estimation.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

BethanyAnne — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:10:55 -0000

But Broken Social Scene would lead to Delerium and Sarah McLachlan and Single Gun Theory. Safer to stick with Depeche Mode ;-)

Re: The journey into white music continues...

bdbd — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:55:14 -0000

There are some nice LA Fleetwood Mac moments, but I"m a Peter Green man.

If you'd like to hear some top notch "white people music" a-bornin', Neil Young has (today, Dec 2) released the whole tape of his Canterbury House show from 1968 (just after Young had left Buffalo Springfield, and was trying to figure out what a Neil Young song and show sounded like), where the B-side "Sugar Mountain" was recorded ("Sugar Mountain" is about growing up, as punctuated by visits to a local amusement park -- a marvelous and (for me) always moving evocation of the passage of time -- I'm told it was the impetus for Joni Mitchell's "Circle Game"). Anyway, for the time being NPR is streaming the entire recording, and it's worth a listen, for historical value and perhaps you'll like it too.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97253221

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:18:37 -0000

also, all this talk of fundamentals is great from a purist's point of view but probably not the best way to introduce someone to the genres involved. just start with something simple and stunning like broken social scene and work backwards. which, how have they not been mentioned yet?

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:08:31 -0000

t-nc is into one of my favorite bands what?

i think the kicks have yet to match trial of the century, and swimming just feels lazy to me, but there are a couple good tracks. if you ever catch them live, pray they play "one more time"; it's that good

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Kris — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:34:04 -0000

"I'm So Afraid" off Fleetwood Mac (and esp. live) spots the Seattle sound about 20 years early. The sound of people losing their minds while playing really loud. Look for the live you tubes, but not the crappy reunion stuff.

Newer? My Morning Jacket and Maktub (although that's integrated rock, not white people music).

Re: The journey into white music continues...

zeitgeist — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:05:48 -0000

Let me start by dispensing with the Mac topic:

Rumours. There is no more. This is not just the best FM album, it is one of the best pop albums, period. (And I say this as someone who is not a big FM or Nicks fan). It certainly isn't the Eagles, and it really isn't easy listening. Yes, all of the songs are on the radio, but listening to the album as a complete entity is a totally different experience. This was lightning in a bottle -- a very tight, explosive rhythm section, a unique guitarist, an ensemble that is more than the sum of its parts. But the real story here is the rawness of the wild emotional soap opera and how it informs and energizes the music. "The Chain" is just freakin' brutal. Seriously: Rumours, the FM alpha and omega.

Now, let me second Elvis Costello (for sheer diversity, from new wave garage like "Radio Radio," to ultra-wry "Beyond Belief," to silken "Almost Blue," to the great pop of "Everyday I Write the Book," to the touching "Veronica," to the rootsier yet cynically comical "Monkey to Man.")

And second Peter Gabriel, but the earlier stuff - the self-titled "Melting Face" album with Biko, Intruder, Games Without Frontiers, etc.

And second the Clash - oh yes, The Only Band that Matters. Hardly a bad song on the entire London Calling set.

But where oh where is the love for the Replacements? "Androgynous," "Answering Machine," "I'll be You," and the better-than-the-original cover of Kiss' "Black Diamond."

(But if you want to see just how white the white music can be, I'd say Carole King's career highlight, the gazillion selling "Tapestry." While I can appreciate the skill, I'd still recommend having a place to sleep nearby.)

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Just Karl — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:31:24 -0000

I remember Go Insane by Lindsey Buckingham. I don't think anyone ever forgets it after they hear it. It's one of those songs that's tough to get out of your head once it gets in. And it's been running in my head all day thanks to you. It's beyond a catchy tune, it's downright contagious.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

greg budzban — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:19:02 -0000

Rumours is fine, but I'm really surprised no one has mentioned "Mystery to Me".

Great music, plus one of the great album covers of all time.

Nothing pretentious about the music, either. Some great tunes with good rhythm.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Tom — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:04:52 -0000

I second the point about people who don't think Rumours is FM's best album being too pretentious to live.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

effluvium — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:52:39 -0000

I've never been a huge FM fan, but I agree completely on Buckingham being underrated. I think it's partly because his technique is so unusual that not many people have tried to imitate him.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Jon — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:09:42 -0000

A few points, partially in response to above posts:

* Matt K is on point about _Tusk_. Much of its material is not as catchy as the music of _Fleetwood Mac_ and _Rumors_, but there's some great music on it. And the title track is one of the coolest things that the post-1975 Fleetwood Mac ever did.

* I wholeheartedly agree with the pro-Buckingham sentiments voiced above. LB, unlike many rock guitarists, is an actual *musician*, as opposed to being, well, a guitarist. Also in this category, as underrated as Buckingham, is the Police's Andy Summers (although his playing on the recent reunion tour was subpar).

* Finally, for all you Lindsay Buckingham fans out there, check out _Buckingham Nicks_, if you can get a hold of it (it's never been released on CD, believe it or not). It's the album that the two of them recorded in the early 70s, prior to joining Fleetwood Mac.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

too many steves — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:04:07 -0000

I will third the nomination of Drive-By Truckers as a truly awesome band. Actually, their thinking on race and heritage on "Southern Rock Opera" is pretty sophisticated and TNC might dig it. That album is great in its way, but uneven. "Brighter Than Creation's Dark" is better, I think.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Nato — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:47:37 -0000

Oh no. This is white people music? I guess it is. One of the drawbacks of being a member of the "default" ethnicity, I guess, is being associated with all sort of things that in no way characterize oneself. Or really, I guess that's a drawback of being a member of *any* ethnicity.

Since everyone else seems to want to suggest bands to which our gracious host will never have the time or (let's be realistic here) the inclination to enjoy, I would like to suggest the alt-folk Dresden Dolls, who are about as lyrically clever as anyone writing music today and are, I believe, both white. For a bonus (in the form of a mild traumatic brain injury: see below), Retching Red's "Scarlet Whore of War" album is definitely very clever lyrically and an example of hardcore punk's modern apotheosis. I also think it takes a certain form of brain damage to *really* like hardcore, or maybe listening to it *causes* brain damage, so either way I usually avoid recommending them to people I like. But the members of Retching Red are all, I believe, totally Caucasian in that predominantly-white world of punk.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

jack LL — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:38:43 -0000

here's my 2-3 cents... Neutral Milk Hotel. there are only a couple albums out there and they're 10 years old. but certainly sent this white boy into spasms of delight and still does.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

ty — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:21:46 -0000

Patrick: Fuckin' eh about Drive By Truckers. Their newish album, Brighter Than Creation's Dark, is righteous. I went on a week-lock backpacking trip this summer and listened to it almost every night while cooking dinner (powered by a little 9v doohicky and lots of batteries).

eric: I haven't thought about Big Star in years. It's really too bad they never worked out. I have a feeling there's a good documentary in there somewhere.

My slightly obscure suggestion: Josh Ritter. He's what you'd get if Springsteen and Bob Dylan had a love child who is less self-indulgent than either of them. His early stuff is kinda generic folk, but his last album went electric. Great instrumentation, frenetic pace, amazing Dylanesque vocals.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

eric k — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:14:15 -0000

TNC,

As long as you are going whole hog into White People Music from the 60s-70s here are some more suggestions:

As mentioned above Springsteen, really all of his 70s albums are musts. Look for the deluxe Born to Run with documentary on the making and concert from London in '75 on DVD.

Anything with Neil Young in it (Buffalo Springfield, solo, CSNY, Stills Young)

Jackson Browne's early stuff - what the Eagles wanted to be.

Gram Parsons, solo, Flying Burrito Brothers and the last couple Byrds albums.

Big Star - in a just world they would have been huge.

Loggins and Messina - Lyin' Eyes is a must, the rest only if you are going for completeness.

Allman Brothers

Derek and the Dominos - Clapton before rehab made him a far healthier person but made his music boring, porbably a good trade for him though:-)

Traffic - Forget the 90s beer commerical crap, Winwood was a mega talent

Blind Faith - ditto

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:08:35 -0000

French Kicks are mediocre. The Dodos' Visiter is currently my joint.

Ps. Ta, you're on fire today.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

gocsrt moizart — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:51:07 -0000

Try "Greetings From Asbury Park," Springsteen's first album. It will blow your socks off, and not just because he mentions me.

Re: The journey into white music continues...

Sorn — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:14:17 -0000

No love for Crosby, Steels, Nash, and Young?

Re: The journey into white music continues...

JayMi — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:10:58 -0000

TNC, the French Kicks cover is not bad at all actually. As a Sista who enjoys rock more than RnB (yes there are a few of us out there)-I concur with many of the previous recommendations. In addition, try: 'I have the touch' by Peter Gabriel (or the whole So album by PG),'Ballroom Blitz' by Sweet, 'Hold Me' or 'Chain' by Fleetwood Mac, 'The Stroke' or 'In the Dark' by Billy Squire or anything by Joni Mitchell or Steely Dan.