The Atlantic - Latest Comments in The Evil That Men Do

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Jerome — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:27:28 -0000

If you think Muslims killing infidels is funny, you're going to love the next decade or so. Once the Iranian nukes come online, there's a good chance you'll die laughing.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

sourcreamus — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:05:09 -0000

It is true that most people who go into Psychiatry are a little off, but I think it highly unlikely that a genuine psychopath would have not been filtered out by the people running a psychiatry school. Rather the extremist version of Islam he became attached to deliberately tries to inculcate the traits of a psychopath(arrogance, aggressiveness, total lack of empathy) into its followers.

There are political implications to this act. The murders at Columbine led to a change in the way police respond to gunmen and how teachers respond to potentially violent children. This terrorist act should lead to a change in how the government responds to Muslim extremists on the payroll.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Col Sanders — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:49:55 -0000

There's a saying: All serial killers are psychopaths, but not all psychopaths are serial killers...

Psychiatrists believe that one out of every ten people is a psychopath and something like three in ten of those will commit actual physical violence as a result.

The rest learn to live with, and hide their condition, but they remain just as dangerous because they have no conscience.

They will lie, cheat, steal...etc and either blame everything on someone else, or simply ignore the threat of any consequences because they believe they're better than everyone else.

In other words, most of them are politicians.

And I'm not even joking.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Was_Holdfast — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:47:35 -0000

Nathan - I'm not holding Obama responsible for the attack, though I suppose you could argue that Holder is creating an "atmosphere" at Justice which might discourage too much scrutiny of this sort of character - but then Nadel's conversion to the Jihad side of the force appears to have occurred long before Obama took office.

My point is that apparently the Commander in Chief needs to be told that it is not appropriate to joke and do "shout outs" just prior to speaking about the death of a dozen military members. For this purpose the cause of the deaths is irrelevant - Sudden Jihad Syndrome, chopper crash, German Measles, whatever. A dozen of HIS troops are dead and Obama is busy joking and confusing the nation's highest medal for bravery with some sort Congressional "thanks for coming out" award. But because the TelePrompTer was not set to the "Caring" setting, it is ok for Obama to act like a buffoon? Seriously?

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Munch — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:30:41 -0000

Exactly. In the news media the Christian would be held responsible as the cause of his evil actions. Perhaps there would be an insinuation that all Christians are responsible in some small way, what with their hate speach against doctors and clinics. The Muslum's actions would be viewed as caused by the war in Iraq, exposure to trama of returning solders and the discrimination he experienced in the Army.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

MikeDC — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:27:27 -0000

The reference with McVeigh contrasts exactly the point. Ideology exists withing a support system. Amongst "right wing political thought" there isn't much support for going out and mass murdering people. Which explains why there's relatively few McVeighs and no one lauding him. There an unstable individual latched onto an ideology that generally doesn't want him latched onto them.

Extremist Muslim communities, on the other hand, seems to create mutually reinforcing ideological attachments that encourage the already unstable to violence like moths to a flame.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:53:13 -0000

Sorry, muzzybelly, you made a significant logical error.

McVeigh showed no compassion and no empathy when he set off his bombs.

That makes him a liberal.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:40:02 -0000

@Holdfast,

Well, that's what handlers do. They remind you of how you should come across at certain times.

It is one of the horrible things about our current political system.

I didn't vote for President Obama, and wouldn't ever vote for him for any office.

But the in-context quote does not indicate that the shooting should be blamed on President Obama, especially not in the manner movertypeguy is attempting to establish.

I'm as partisan-conservative as the next guy. But I believe in fighting fair and honestly.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

muzzybelly — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:26:29 -0000

There is a difference between a motive and a cause.

We know what McVeigh was trying to do in the OKC bombings. We know he was motivated by right-wing political thought. Does that mean right-wing ideology *caused* that, or that an unstable individual latched onto an ideology as he cratered over the edge?

Charles Manson talked a lot about the coming race war. Does that mean either MLK or Malcolm X were responsible?

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Munch — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:50:02 -0000

jerome your bombastic post is funny

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Jerome — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:11:42 -0000

To anyone who takes Islam seriously, the First Amendment is an unnaceptable restriction. In fact, the entire US Constitution is a blasphemous substitute for the only acceptable basis for political power - shariah. Islam and allegiance to the US Constitution are flatly incompatible, and there is no one alive who truly practices both. All Muslims have sworn, over and over and over again, to overthrow the Constitution of the United States by force.

But Megan is right, it's not political. To a Muslim, politics is deciding how to divide up the infidels' wives, daughters, and other posessions. Killing infidels is simply a necessary prelude to politics - and a sacred duty. Don't take my word for it. It's all right there in the Koran.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Munch — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:41:32 -0000

So if a Christian shoots up an abortion clinic we need to spend weeks trying to determine if he was just a loony (probable - who shoots up innocent people other than loonies) or a political actor?

Christian => voiced ainti abortion speach => expressed that abortionists should die => shot up abortion clinic = we know his motive

Muslum => voiced ainti US military speach => expressed that non muslums should die => shot up a US military base = what in the world could have caused this?

Re: The Evil That Men Do

gnc — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:08:28 -0000

I doubt that Switzerland is a polite society *because* it is an armed society.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Was_Holdfast — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:25:37 -0000

Why should psycho and jihadi terrorist be mutually exclusive diagnoses? Looking at the last 8 years, I see lots of overlap - the head-sawing of Berg and Pearl especially come to mind.

I understand that journalists don't want to provide the spark that gets a mosque torched, but you cannot cover for Muslim extremists forever. To continue to do so, to push the debate and questions out of the legitimate sphere of discussion will only lead to the rise of a US version of the BNP.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Was_Holdfast — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:15:04 -0000

One of fellow Muslims figured out he was a dangerous extremist (and to his credit, tried to bring him around):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-07/major-hasans-hidden-militancy/full/

Why should be expect moderate Muslims to stand up to these guys when the US Government coddles these extremists - talk about sending a mixed message!

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Was_Holdfast — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:11:42 -0000

I find your view fascinating, and would be interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

Actually, this comment appeared far less over the top than your usually fare, probably because this is EXACTLY what many talking heads have been saying, even on the dreaded Fox News.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Was_Holdfast — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:06:27 -0000

Replying to Nathan:

That's a funny statement, if true. It is like Obama is incapable of appearing to care unless David Axelrod properly sets the TelePrompTer to the "caring" setting. I mean seriously - bunch of YOUR troops are dead - sure you're probably short on info, but you can't fake a somber tone?

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Ann — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:46:59 -0000

"Holder will prosecute only those who violated then-President Bush's guidelines"

That makes no sense, since these agents have already been investigated and cleared. Holder's double-jeopardy type reinvestigation is to scare them and harm them by running up their legal bills.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Ann — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:40:13 -0000

"Holder threatening to prosecute CIA agents who broke the rules while interrogating suspects"

You mean, Holder choosing to reinvestigate CIA agents who had already been investigated and cleared. This is a type of double jeopardy. Why would Holder do this if not to send a chilling effect to all agents, that you can be investigated endlessly even when you follow the rules? It's a backdoor way to change the rules by stopping them from using even approved methods, if there's a chance that the actions could later be twisted and misused for partisan political purposes.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Gerty — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:54:29 -0000

Yea right, We'll all be running to put our fate in the hands of Sarah Palin and Rush. This place is like la la land. Have you folks been right about anything in the last ten years?

Re: The Evil That Men Do

MikeDC — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:22:18 -0000

The question isn't whether it's always Muslims, but whether there are systems in place that encourage psychopaths to manifest their tendencies in violent ways.

Think of it as a set of smaller and smaller groups.

All people > psychopaths with violent tendencies > psychopaths with violent tendencies who actually go out and kill a bunch of people.

To cross the line from just having violent thoughts to actually engaging in violent acts, even "evil" or psychopathic people generally develop a rationale for their behavior.

And the problem is that the extremist version of Islam is one that seems to encourage crossing that line.

If you want a gratuitous insult hurled at your political enemies, one might consider it similar to the situation where the Catholic priesthood appeared to create an environment that attracted and eased the path of pedophiles to actually abusing people.

That doesn't make the Catholic church evil, but the reality of the situation puts the responsibility on it to prevent abuse and direct those sickos into situations where they both won't and can't act on their impulses.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

MikeDC — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:52:33 -0000

If we are going to be honest about things, we'll note that a particularly extreme brand of a particular religion appears to draw in and direct the behavior of random psychopaths toward shooting up (blowing up, crashing into, etc.) crowds of innocent people.

There are other extremist religious groups and other random psychopaths, but none of the former have quite the leadership, institutional framework and set of philosophical justifications to encourage the random psychopaths it comes across to engage in acts of mass violence.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:29:01 -0000

That's a little bit like saying: There is no reason to murder anyone, so anyone who does so must be insane.

Would you say all murderers should go free since murdering one's fellow human is clearly not the act of a sane, well-adjusted individual?

I'm sorry, I cannot accept the "He went nuts" theory. He had other options, and chose not to take them. His choices have consequences for the individuals he shot, and their families. His choices and following actions make it clear he cannot co-exist with other law-abiding citizens. He should be punished for his choices, and his punishment should be an example that deters others from making the same choices.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

movertyperguy — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:30:21 -0000

That's interesting because they still claim that fire cannot melt steel and that Israel was responsible for 9/11.

Re: The Evil That Men Do

MoReport — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:48:05 -0000

@ Brain Fertilizer Bomb :)

Jihadist or psychopath ?

Rational or logical ?

Ignore what is said, and

judge by what is done.

When attempting to distinguish

between sane and insane, the

motivation matters; The same

action can be performed for

good or bad reasons.

Christians, or at any rate Catholics,

make the distinction between suicide

and self-sacrifice in terms of motivation,

just as the shooter did; In his case, there

was no good (sane) reason for what he did;

Whether attempting to enter Paradise, or

avoid an unpleasant future, or save the

lives of fellow Jihadists, who were strangers

to him, his motivation was not sane.