The Atlantic - Latest Comments in The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

sanjuroku — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:12:56 -0000

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

xelgaex — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:57:22 -0000

I'm a white liberal from Alabama so I can contribute a little here. The basic answer is we are here, we're just kind of rare. (As the 88% number might indicate.) I have thought about moving at times, but I have friends and family here and it's my home, infuriating as it can be. If I got a job out west or up north, I might enjoy it there (in fact I expect I would), but I'd probably miss some things as well.

There are also oasises in Alabama to a certain extent, mostly in metropolitan areas and college towns. A lot of the people you meet are still going to be conservatives, but in those areas you can find people who share your views. But aside from the occasional cordial argument or playful ribbing, my friendships with my conservative friends aren't a lot different from those with my liberal ones.

I have to accept that the candidate I support most likely won't be the one the rest of the state votes for, but that's just annoying, not intolerable. And maybe someday that will change.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:58:55 -0000

Fair enough.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

CParis — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:55:13 -0000

My stepdad, an old-line Maine Republican, abandoned the GOP in 2003. He said BushCo's tax "reform" was a sham and the HalliburtonBlackwaterKBR invasion of Iraq drove him crazy.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

CParis — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:48:05 -0000

Bingo! The GOP has become equal-opportunity offenders. Just about the only people who are NOT offended by this display of sexist, racist blithering are KKK members (with or without hoods).

They've lost African Americans, Latinos, any other minorities, women, young people, rational white men, LGBT - but they're still big among the folks in vegetative states.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Jennifer D. — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:42:30 -0000

"We're too abrasive, too tough, too aggressive, not a team player."

Yes! Which I always hear as a code word for "bitch." (But I am also, of course, being a woman - overly sensitive!) One of the reasons I own my own business now is that being bossy is always an asset.

They are definitely pissing off this white woman, anyway. I am awed by Sotomayor's calm demeanor through it all.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Marcos El Malo — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:55:14 -0000

Texas was founded, at least partially, on the basis of preserving the institution of slavery. The Plan de Iguala (1820) outlawed slavery, Mexico gained independence in 1821, and the abolition of slavery was embedded into the Mexican Constitution in 1824. After the Revolution, Mexico encouraged Anglos to settle in the state of Coahuila y Tejas. Many Southerners came, bringing their slaves.

This flouting of the law and other breaking of the agreed terms of Anglo settlement led to a crackdown on the Anglo Texians after about a decade. Thus we have the Texian Revolution starting in 1835 and later the Mexican-American War after the Republic of Texas was annexed by the U.S. in 1845.

So, a slave state and a state South of the Mason Dixon line. A state that joined the Confederacy that sent many men to fight the Union. How is that not a duck?

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

silentbeep — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:32:51 -0000

"the very post you say you are disagreeing"

I don't necessarily disagree with the post. And I don't think there is only just a focus on black and white, there was talk upthread about immigration and the new arrival of Mexicans in Baltimore and New York, etc. I was just mentioning that Mexicans and other hispanic groups aren't that "new" especially in other parts of the country - not as new as say in the East Coast. I was adding a bit of historical perspective of Latino presence in the country, which is older in the southwest for exampmle.

Perhaps some of the GOP like Pat Buchanan think just "ignoring" people of color in general is a good strategy and ramping up race-baiting might work too, is because the GOP in some of those hisorically multicultural areas, ignored people of color for a long time and were still successful i.e. the california GOP in the 80s. Stuck in the past? Maybe.

This early comment was a small, perhaps too small and not well explained initially.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

eric k — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:06:51 -0000

Due,

I think your seeing a difference where none existed, the very post you say you are disagreeing with contains this line:

Amping up the race-baiting isn't just going to turn off black people (most of whom are already turned-off) it turns off Latinos also.

How is that only focussing on black and white? I read TNC's post as pointing out that basically Pat Buchanan is living in a world where there is only black and white so he thinks he can gain white votes and not worry about any of the others.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

anna perez — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:06:47 -0000

Jennifer, while watching the hearings, especially during Sen. Graham's questioning, I too got the impression that the GOP was probably pissing off an awful lot of women, including White women. Over the years, I've worked with many, many White women in the corporate world. With few exceptions, at some point we've (professional women of all races) all had our "temperments" questioned by White men. We're too abrasive, too tough, too aggressive, not a team player.

Several years ago, I was putting together a press event featuring the CEO's of three of the largest telcoms in the country. At the end of the event, my boss (not one of the telcom CEO's but one of the most influential men in show biz at the time) showed me a note from one of the CEO's asking my boss "is she always that bossey?" My boss assured him I was and that's why he'd made sure I was running the event.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Russell — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:06:26 -0000

I do comment there on occasion, however I think there's another Russell there (maybe he spells it russell?) who is a bit more active.

Sometimes I post as Russell Abbott as well.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

silentbeep — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:28:30 -0000

..and I did read the origincal post and comments.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

silentbeep — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:27:09 -0000

I understand that the Latino population is growing in different parta so the country, including the East Coast. What I am also pointing out is that there is a large portion of the country where the Latino population has always existed as huge part ot the demographics for a long time (as always as Asian by the way) and the existence of such groupps, is not a relatively new phenomenon (relatively 'new" meaning in relation to say the much larger "historical" presence of "hispanic populstions" in the southwest for example, or the presence of the Chinese during gold rush era California, etc.).

This is no disrespect to the East Coast. I'm just stating a difference that I see in perspectives regarding demographics changes and the history of certain groups residing in some parts of the country vs. other parts in this blog sometimes. It's not bad or wrong, good or right. Just adding to the mix of geographic and ethnic perspective here.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

dsd25 — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:49:17 -0000

I'll sign onto the entirety of SW's post. Living in the South, I know many moderate Republicans who consider themselves similar to the old-school NE Republicans. Some have even taken to calling themselves conservative democrats, though most of them are generally "libertarian". My parents fall in that camp as well and both felt Obama was the stronger candidate especially after the Palin debacle.

I think there is a silent minority of the Republicans who hate the direction the party is taking and that just like the idea of limited federal government. They'll either move into the Democratic party and try to align it with those views, fight inside the Republican party for candidates like Huntsman and Crist or just give up. Any of these ways, these moderate Republicans aren't likely going back to the uber-conservative wing without some proof that it isn't as rabidly crazy as before. I think the best example is in the field of science, where the Republican party's standards are clearly backwards and generally ridiculous. I know people who won't vote Republican again until they hear that they agree with accepted scientific facts like evolution and to a lesser extent, climate change.

I always felt that many "Obamacans" weren't super supportive of Obama as much as they were genuinely horrified that the right wing of their party had taken over and had to witness the Presidential debates with people like Tancredo, Hunter and others. Additionally, watching Romney change all his stripes (my mother has jokingly called herself a 1994-Romney conservative) in order to appease the rabid base disappointed them in the party as much as in Romney himself.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

lebecka — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:32:43 -0000

motownjunk-- pittsburgh is no haven of racial harmony either. Even though blacks and whites here don't rumble on a regular basis, this is mostly because they keep themselves to themselves. Very little mixing goes on -- most people around here self-segregate, and stay in their own worlds. Now, people here also tend to mind their own business, which is nice, but it doesn't encourage branching out in new directions.

That's why a liberal, inner city dweller like me grew up with almost no contact with black people outside of riding on the bus. Our paths simply did not cross.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:30:43 -0000

It's worth reading through the comments, and the original post. The point about there being a very large, and growing, Latino population in this country is made repeatedly. I don't think being from the East Coast has much to do with it. It isn't like there aren't Latinos here.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

sv — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:18:54 -0000

yeah.. it's a losing strategy even if you do away with the electoral college, though, isn't it, and also even if you discount the demographic trends, because i suspect the public's attitude in general towards racism, within every racial cohort, is becoming less tolerant. (less tolerant of racism in any form.) buchanan et al are stuck in their old white man bubble, and they're not the majority even among that cohort.

more than that, it's a losing strategy because it has no actual substance - just baseless fear-mongering tribal/culture war resentment that's finally losing its credibility and appeal. instead of offering real solutions for all to the real issues facing us, they just try to stoke the fires of old boogey men, old saws, making up problems that don't really exist but many suspect could be true. immigrants cause crime to go up, etc. (a recent reason.com/blog post demonstrated that this isn't true.) i suspect the public is slowly coming to reject this sort of insubstantial politics in favor of more solid policy stuff, because they feel that govt. hasn't dealt with the myriad problems that face them and they're feeling vulnerable right now and just downright tired of it. i'm not gonna only point to the single instance of the Obama victory as evidence of this, even though as a sort of movement that is significant - this is more my reading of the newer generations of voters becoming politically aware, and of people my age (29).

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

motownjunk — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:01:29 -0000

Another emphasis: Google "Martinsville Indiana racism." Martinsville's arguably one of the worst examples in Indiana, but having grown up about an hour away from there, I wouldn't consider it an outlier, either.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

silentbeep — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:59:45 -0000

Just wanted to mention here that Latino/Hispanic/whatever population (and I say that as a mexican-american pocha person ha!)has been growing very fast in the South.

It never was just a white and black country, but then again,my perspective is very different than the largely east coast perspective here - the West Coast namely California, has been "multicultural" and "multiracial" for decades.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

CitizenE — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:47:08 -0000

She could be Jewish or North African as well. One forgets that Spain is historically the most multiethnic, multiracial European nation.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

eric k — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:23:52 -0000

SV,

The thing is that white vote isn't distributed equally, McCain got something like over 70% of the White vote in Alabama for example.

That is the major flaw with Pat's thinking that commentators to Matt's post have pointed out, running up an even bigger percentage in states he already won woudln't change anything. And for every White vote you gain in thoise state you lose in others. And the real problem is if they manage to turn Hispanics into a solidly 80-90% democractic block they put Texas and Florida in jeopardy.

Nate Silver ran the numbers on the all white strategy, the short answer is it is barely doable if you thread the electrol needle and manage to keep Texas and Florida. So they need a political genius who can create enough white rage to win the winnable states while limiting the damage among Hispanics so they just barely hold onto Texas and Florida. I'd put my chances of winning Powerball tonight higher, and I didn't buy tickets:-)

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

sv — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:04:08 -0000

wait... 55% of white voters voted for McCain? Really? For McCain-Palin? WTF?

And actually, since we know Obama won most of the under-30 vote, and probably most of the under-35 or 40 vote, this means that old white people (i think retired people vote at a pretty high rate, don't they) went even more solidly for McCain. (One of their own hehe.)

55% for McCain-Palin. Jesus, man. That is just nuts.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Azarina — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:43:05 -0000

Speaking of border policy, this discussion is reminding me of the New Yorker article on Joe Arpaio I read last night (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/07/20/090720fa_fact_finnegan, full article in print mag only). He's an appalling, disgusting man, and yet had been reelected Sheriff down in Arizona. He's 77 (or 79?), though, so hopefully he represents the last gasp of the older generation in their attempt to preserve the tradition of conservative white privilege.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

Roberto — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:41:45 -0000

As if to emphasize your point, my brother is a gay Puerto Rican living in Atlanta.

Re: The Efficacy Of Race-Baiting

rdldot — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:56:45 -0000

hmmm...are you Russell from OBWI?