The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Ted Haggard

Re: Ted Haggard

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Re: Ted Haggard

william dick — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:43:30 -0000

Greetings, Thanks for the posts. I suggest that another issue is that interviewers let Ted Haggard and others off too easy and accept stupid answers. Would they accept an answer of not responding to hetersexual urges as a result of therapy? Would they not ask why he went back and back to the same person? (love, affection,

desire???) Would they not be skeptical that these gay behaviors of recent origin were only the tip of the iceberg? God Bless Oprah and Larry King, but they dont have the capacity to doggedly go after stupid answers and push for something of substance in regards to gay issues.

Re: Ted Haggard

SLC — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:44:58 -0000

Relative to his appearance on Larry King, it should be noted that Mr. King asked him if he had had a relationship with other men besides the two who have gone public and he refused to answer the question.

Re: Ted Haggard

Marc — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:35:54 -0000

Sorry, Blader, I simply don't see that. Ted is still very much full of self-loathing because of his sexuality - he told Larry he would "never ever" give into these sinful feeling he keeps having about men. The fact he doesnt want to admit what just about anyone in the gay community recognizes - that he is one of us - means that he isn't being honest at all.

Instead, he is using old tired chestnuts like "I was molested as a kid" (yes, he said that on Oprah) or this is all about sin. It is utterly insulting and condescending to those of us who have been through such trauma, and haven't demonized other people in the process.

As for loving his wife, that I don't doubt. I was engaged, and loved my fiancee - would have done anything for her. But it was a casual sort of love, the kind you reserve for a friend, not your life partner. It's also a standard answer I hear from the many Teds that wander into my bar: I can't be gay because I love my wife.

I do agree with you on his church - they certainly practiced a less-than-Christian attitude, but this also is Ted's legacy. He ocnditioned them for this sort of response, even wrote strict moral rules about the conduct of members. Did he expect another reaction? If I was a member of this church, I also would want an investigation into the current leadership, who basically paid a bribe to a young man to keep him quiet. (Yes, I know for counseling and schooling - $180,000 worth?) Maybe this sort of dishonesty is a given at New Hope (cue the irony on that title),

Ted's million-wattage smile is that of a used car dealer trying to sell you a little beauty with only 200,000 miles - and only driven by a little old lady on Sundays. So call me cynical, but I don't get one feeling that Ted is looking for redemption, but simply some way to make money off of his grief. Maybe a reality show is his next step.

Re: Ted Haggard

blader — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:03:38 -0000

I have a different take than most of you. I saw his HBO documentary, then read the CNN transcript.

Before that, I just knew about him from the headlines. BTW, turning on HBO, I was convinced I was going to watch some sort of classic evangelical con artist and have snarky fun with it. Instead, I came away with a lot of respect for the guy.

As far as remaining married, I sense there is a deep love between he and his wife. Being gay complicates, but certainly doesn't nullify, that love.

Second, his is a classic tragic story of a middle aged man in crisis. Many fall, for various reasons. His own fall has been particularly scandalous for reasons we all recognize. It would appear his church--one that preaches forgiveness of sin-- has abandoned him. Sure, it is his fault, but still, nasty stuff. Yet, what he seems to be doing in all of this, as public as it is, is to rebuild his self-respect and sense of dignity.

He's recovering better than a lot of middle aged guys I've seen go through similar tragedies, who end up wallowing in self-pity and self-loathing.

I've come to admire his courage. I never thought I'd say that about one of these self-righteous evangelicals, whose hypocrisy stains our culture like no other.

Re: Ted Haggard

Tony Comstock — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:21:57 -0000

At least, he's not asking for a federal bailout.

*snort*

Re: Ted Haggard

Janice Huth Byer — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:39:34 -0000

Reared unchurched but having read the King James Bible to try to get where Christians come from, I still don't get where fundamentalists find justification for their cruelty to gays.

I do get Haggard's shame is as much the fault of our culture as his religion. His need to cash in on notoriety that ended his career is just another reason to feel sorry for him. At least, he's not asking for a federal bailout.

Re: Ted Haggard

Marc — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:59:44 -0000

As a bartender at a gay bar, I have seen plenty of Ted Haggards. For the most, I do feel sympathy for them because, as so noted above, it is tough accepting something about yourself in a society where many consider you sick, sinful, etc. Many of these Haggards also don't get into marriage thinking they are trying to fool their wives, but geniunely think marriage is the cure to their problems. It ain't ever the case.

I didn't watch the Oprah interview, but I saw him on Larry King. I have zippo sympathy for him. He may not be demozining gays, but he still considers it a sin, and still considers himself "heterosexual with issues." I also know enough about public relations to see that Haggard the Salesman is simply moving himself into a position to return to ministry, etc. He and his wife (who is also sadly going along with this sham) plan to take to the road to "tell a story that needs to be told." What story is that? A closeted gay man who is lying to himself and his family, or one of a man who needs ot drive away his sinful demons?

If Ted would haave simply left the spotlight and dealt with his pain privately, I would have had a lot more respect. But he is purposely making this a media event to sell a documentary (and probably a book at some point). I don't doubt that being caught in this lie wasn't tough for him; but does any one honestly believe he is sorry for his actions - or just sorry about being caught?

Re: Ted Haggard

Tony Comstock — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:40:33 -0000

I too just feel sad for the man. I cannot fathom the amount of self-loathing a person must have to flagellate themselves so publicly for something so obviously intrinsic. Far from outrage, disgust, or boredom, I just feel sorry.

Maybe. Or maybe it's simply an unquenchable thirst to be in the public eye.

Re: Ted Haggard

agorabum — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:17:24 -0000

The whole affair with his parishoner really reminds of Satan's Alley, staring Kirk Lazarus.

So if anyone is imagining what Haggard was going through, just watch that trailer.

www.dailymotion.com/video/x7al... -

Re: Ted Haggard

James F. Elliott — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:42:37 -0000

I too just feel sad for the man. I cannot fathom the amount of self-loathing a person must have to flagellate themselves so publicly for something so obviously intrinsic. Far from outrage, disgust, or boredom, I just feel sorry.

Re: Ted Haggard

deva — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:36:32 -0000

Agreed. The whole thing is deeply sad.

Re: Ted Haggard

DC — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:15:06 -0000

Haggard and Larry Craig are some of the saddest public figures in living memory. Look at their faces after they've been exposed and they seem so hollow and tragic. More "honest bigots", if such a thing can be imagined, wouldn't seem nearly as diminished and weak as Haggard does, gamely arguing the rightness of the positions he promoted as a way of publicly detesting himself.

Maybe their destructive actions toward the people in their lives, not to mention the discrimination in public life that they foster, should put them beyond pity. Perhaps kynefski's right, and the tragedies they portend for others are worse than the tragedies that their own lives now seem to be. But I can't look at Haggard without thinking of what a sad horror it must be to be him, his moments of joy and self-affirmation conducted shamefully and desperately. Fighting against himself at every waking moment, a part of himself "buried and hated".

Re: Ted Haggard

kynefski — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:02:16 -0000

I feel no animosity toward Rev. Haggard, but it saddens me to imagine some kid watching Haggard's "testimony" and thinking that his own sexuality is something he can control, you know, make no longer compulsive. He can have a good marriage and be seen by his neighbor as a good Christian man. He'll just have to deal with this quirk, I dunno, maybe like having high cholesterol. Handle it with diet and exercise, or something like that.

The tragedies Haggard's behavior here portend are heartbreaking.

Re: Ted Haggard

DC Fem — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:48:46 -0000

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't get the wife. Sure, she was probably naive and steeped in the beliefs of her church to marry a man who confessed to having homosexual thoughts. This same thing probably happened to many women thirty-five years ago. But it is 2009. She has to know better now. And knowing what she knows, I think it is commendable that she has chosen forgiveness. BUT I think it is being blinded by her religion and lying to herself that she has not chosen divorce.

Haggard and his wife both have plenty of time left in their lives to find people who can truly make them happy. I hope they do and remain good friends.

Re: Ted Haggard

toby — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:40:01 -0000

I watched a show where Haggard claimed (to Richard Dawkins, before Haggard's exposure) that he had weekly conference calls with Bush and Rove. Arn't these assholes well got?

Re: Ted Haggard

brucds — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:16:44 -0000

Give that Haggard is not some poor struggling private citizen but has been a public figure, deeply involved in advocacy for shit that's totally bigoted, insane and un-Christian, I have the same sympathy for Oprah's guest that I had for that black guy Dave Chappelle had on his show who was a member of the KuKluxKlan. Haggard used hundreds of thousands of dollars of his followers' giving to the church, incidentally, to pay off and cover up. If he hadn't been caught, there would be no "change", no remorse. Screw this guy - obscurity would be a blessing to his family and to society, but he's got a big-hair preacher's ego and career to nurture. I hate these guys - closeted, straight, or whatever.

Indidentally, Oprah totally gets on my nerves promoting assholes like this, as does Alexandra Pelosi. I'm sorry - there's more worthwhile stuff to use their respective media platforms for. Pelosi is an utterly opportunistic "documentarian" - she pulled the same shit with another asshole, W.

Re: Ted Haggard

North — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:56:57 -0000

But at the same time, having a sexual relationship with a parishoner is a pretty big betrayal for a minister -- it violates your relationship with the whole congregation, and most mainstream churches have pretty heavypolicies against it. And he supposedly cared about these people.

I sure as hell have sympathy for the people he had sexual relationships with. It's the rest of the congregation I have less sympathy for.

If he'd come out, he would have lost his social and professional position. The congregation is complicit with the evangelical movement in creating incentives for people to stay closeted. And the repressed desires of secretive people come out in secretive and sometimes unpleasant way. It's predictable as the day.

Re: Ted Haggard

elw — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:50:13 -0000

@ North,

I'm sure it's true that his congregation is homophobic. But at the same time, having a sexual relationship with a parishoner is a pretty big betrayal for a minister -- it violates your relationship with the whole congregation, and most mainstream churches have pretty heavypolicies against it. And he supposedly cared about these people. So it still affects my view of him that he didn't take seriously his responsibility to the people under his care who looked to him for guidance about God and their own lives.

Re: Ted Haggard

Tony Comstock — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:07:43 -0000

Sexual repression plays out in odd ways, both on the individual and the society. This morning I found out that the clip we have on YouTube from our film about a gay couple is more popular in Iran than anywhere else in the world.

Re: Ted Haggard

Horst — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:04:43 -0000

As a gay man I can attest that the struggle of Ted Haggard is the struggle that ALL gay people experience. Some are able to come through it relatively unscathed and some can not. Most of us (IMHO) have to deal with self-esteem issues and learn to value our own lives and feelings. I am an adult yet still bear the scars of growing up gay in a pretty homophobic area. Luckily for me my family supported, accepted and loved me. If not for that, I'm sure I would be pretty messed up right about now. To all you straight people - if your kid is gay, PLEASE, PLEASE love them and support them even if you don't understand why they are what they are. You could literally be the difference between life and death for them.

I sympathize with Ted. I know his struggle. I consider myself lucky to have reconciled my sexuality and accepted myself. It's not easy and I am not going to be the one the throw the first stone (so to speak) at Haggard.

Re: Ted Haggard

North — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:51:25 -0000

I don't understand why Oprah had him on her show. It just gives him a platform for spreading the view that there's something wrong with being gay, and that the right way to deal with it is to try to be straight. It's irresponsible.

I do feel sorry for him. But, elw has it right:

"My sympathy for him is tempered by thinking about the damage he's inflicted on other people: his wife, kids, other gay and bisexual people who are living their lives openly and with more integrity, and his church."

I know it's hard for people who have grown up in a world where being gay is a catastrophe to come out and live their lives. But people like Ted Haggard just make it harder. Unlike elw, though, I don't have a lot of sympathy for his church. That's what you get for being insanely homophobic: closeted gay people who make themselves, their families, and people around them miserable.

Re: Ted Haggard

lolagib1 — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:45:02 -0000

I feel like I must be missing something here. I did watch the interview and I remember hearing him say that in the past, he felt that his homosexual thoughts and feelings were "evil" or "demonic". but in the interview, he said that he no longer feels that way. He doen't label himself or his thoughts as demonic and he has somewhat accepted the homosexual thoughts. He feels that he can be accpeted by Jesus.

I just get the feeling that some people still think he feels that gay is evil. Now he does not believe that he is living the "ideal lifestyle" as he put it which is why he is holding on to his marriage.

He grew up in the church and was taught that homosexuals are evil and will goto hell. I firmly believe that the church is wrong and it creates individuals like Tedd Haggert. For him, its difficult to juggle his religious beliefs and a homosexual lifestyle. Its a process that he will have to go through till he can find peace with himself. But he is a man that who does not want to abandon the church, even though they abandonned him.

Re: Ted Haggard

DougEMI — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:36:22 -0000

By cynical, I meant that one of the thoughts that is in my head is that he may be protecting his wallet. That is the worst case scenario, he is simply a huckster. Of course I don't know what is really going on and like I mentioned, a more sypathetic view is that he is in denial, because the lifestyle he has been in, demands him to be hetero.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I also keep the possiblity in the back of my mind that they may be full of shit.

Re: Ted Haggard

elw — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:24:53 -0000

My sympathy for him is tempered by thinking about the damage he's inflicted on other people: his wife, kids, other gay and bisexual people who are living their lives openly and with more integrity, and his church. I'm sure that the young guy who just came forward is not the only one in the church who came into such direct contact with his mixed messages. The only ones I'm really sorry for are the kids, who certainly didn't ask to have their dad be a messed-up closet case. His wife's humiliation can't be fun, but she choses this too by staying with him and going on TV shows with him. Sick.