The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Team of rivals rant...

Re: Team of rivals rant...

john — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:13:20 -0000

Farewell, Internet - my final post (can a choking sound register in a cyber-voice?) I live in a place where there's no light pollution and I don't use prescription drugs and I grow a large portion of my own food and every night I step out my back door and swear a prayer or two to the dear, beautiful eternal night. For me Obama is that Indians grew tobacco and Europeans wanted it so bad they sold their souls for slavery and now Obama, with roots from all over the world, still sends the old smoke skyward. It's like the last 400 years come down to earth and pain and smoke, redeemed solely by the beauty of a few words. It's not that there's anything to my point of view, it's just that there's no place for it in the seemingly infinite cyber-space. To paraphrase again an old favorite poet I really haven't thought of much in years - there's a hell of a good universe next door - I'm going!

Re: Team of rivals rant...

PeterGuillam — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:38:32 -0000

"Next we'll probably see Hillary's hand-wringing rivalling that of Rahm Emanuel - I want to take the job, I don't want to take the job, I'm thinking of my family, I'm thinking of the good people of New York, I'm thinking of the people of the world, I'm thinking of health care, yada yada yada."

Ok, I know it's extremely tacky to quote oneself, but I wrote this 2 days ago, and what do you know, the hand-wringing has started today:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15738.html

Money quote:

"Clinton, the person said, remains deeply “torn” between the possibility of serving in Obama’s cabinet and remaining in the Senate to “help pass health care and work on a broad range of domestic issues.”"

Sigh. I really wish I was wrong about this. So the soap opera continues. I think I AM suffering from Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Su Jay — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:39:45 -0000

There are already too may former Clinton associates in the Obama transition and inner circle. Where is the diversity that got him elected? One African-American in the inner sanctum. Where are the Latins, Asians, and American Indians. So far, this is not the change I voted for. Clinton as SOS? No way, no how. Obama can do better!

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Chris Cooper — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:32:06 -0000

I think the concept of a 'team of rivals" is a bit silly, but I haven't read the book, so maybe I'm wrong...

I tend to agree with other comments, in that I think she would be a good choice for Sec of State, but I also think she would do a lot of good in the Senate if she stayed there.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Jeff Cohen — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 08:36:28 -0000

I am delighted to know that you can run a totally racist and redbaiting campaign against Obama and still be chosen as SoS.

You can invoke his assassination as rationale.

You can lose the nomination because you were wrong on the war and be chosen as SoS by a guy whose candidacy was made possible by his early opposition to it.

You can beat out out a qualified Bill Richardson (or any of a number of more qualified folks) who helped save BHO's even though you crossed every red line to destroy it.

You can even bring back your tired repellent drama when it is so clearly not in BHO's interest to do so.

And you can be an oldtime pol and be chosen by Mr. Change.

I suppose none of this would matter if he really believed that she would make the best SoS. But no way he thinks that. She has no record except being wrong on the most important issues recent years.

But, worst of all, was her racist campaign which started the whole Muslim, Wright, Ayers BS. He forgives that. The MSM will see that as strong. I see that as being a wuss.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Deborah — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:44:56 -0000

You could stick a fork in her because she'd be DONE.

They've been saying this for a year now; time to embrace zombies as the dominant metaphor of the campaign and move on.

It's not like she's opting to retreat to a writer's workshop for the next few years--senator from New York counts as service.

It is not a particularly original idea either.

I'm telling you, they need to get that puppy. Give people something besides cabinet speculation.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Thomas — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:21:49 -0000

It is not a particularly original idea either. Most of us have to work with people we don't necessarily like. Most of us don't go around patting ourselves on the back for doing this.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Carrington Ward — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:10:14 -0000

I don't like Hillary that much, but I rather like the idea, mainly because State sucks political clout from its Secretary...

In general, State needs to be revived -- Powell was initially quite beneficial -- and it needs a politically strong figure to rebuild.

Its worth noting historically Obama is coming in with a far stronger mandate than any Democrat... really since FDR: Truman wasn't his own man, JFK won by a squeaker, LBJ felt hounded by Camelot, Carter didn't win as much as Nixon lost it for Ford, Clinton's Presidency came as a result of Perot's insurgency.

He can afford to coopt Clinton. For Clinton, except for th donor base, SOS is a promotion: she's still a junior Senator. (and it's not as if Bill won't continue to build his donor base...)

Re: Team of rivals rant...

brucds — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:01:05 -0000

Unless and until we have some confirmation from Obama of the substance of his meeting with Hillary, there's no forest and no trees. Just rumors. Since Obama doesn't play rumors, I'm inclined to believe this is a Clintonite generated hoopla.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Adrienne — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:52:20 -0000

Deborah: "They'll applaud. She can be a critic from the Senate, and if her criticisms are valid then they'll have some effect."

Some effect, yes, but not much. Her decline to serve will be cast as blatantly and obviously political. Now, we ALL know that HRC is a political creature, but if she declines a position to help rebuild this nation choosing instead to "throw rocks at the building" in an attempt to further her political career at the expense of the country, that wouldn't fly.

Everytime she went out in public to criticize Obama, the interview would start something like this: "Yeah, but weren't you offered a position in the cabinet, which you promptly declined? If you were so worried about the fate of this nation, why did you decline to serve? And if you weren't worried about the nation, what does that say about your judgment given that you endorsed Obama and campaigned for him?". You could stick a fork in her because she'd be DONE.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

The Foulness — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:43:44 -0000

The hyperbole was in honor of Bill Walton.

Best. Hyperbolizer. Ever.

In the history of the universe.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Dug — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:13:29 -0000

I'll admit that the Rahm/Jackson metaphor was a little tossed off, but jeez Foulness - Hyperbole much?

Re: Team of rivals rant...

The Foulness — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:02:18 -0000

Are we really gonna let that Rahm = Phil Jackson comment stand?

Or can we all agree it is the most thoughtless, idiotic politics = sports metaphor in history.

Those two men couldn't have more different styles.

If you are gonna compare Obama's cabinet to a team, better would be the Boston Celtics of 1986.

Obama = Larry Bird = Reigning MVP, best player alive

Clinton = Kevin McHale - 1st Ballot Hall of Famer, #1 option on any other team

Rahm = Danny Ainge - Annonying Prick who gets things done

Biden = Bill Walton - Old big mouth on the bench

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Deborah — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:49:22 -0000

I don't see Bill as that much of an issue in any job that doesn't have a built-in first-dude component. In trying to think of anything at all done by the spouse of a secretary of state, I think Mrs. Powell suggested her husband not run for president. That's it. Whereas veep spouses--Lynn writes historical stuff, Tipper fought for music ratings, etc.

Either he learns that he is not "Bill Clinton, former president, giving his unbiased take on the situation" or he becomes a standard dismissal "ignore Bill; you know how he is." And since looking up Pump Head, which describes my own dad, I have a bit more empathy for where Bill is coming from.

Adrienne, assuming that Clinton has been offered the job (which I give about 2 to 1 odds in favor) if she turns him down she still has the hard-core base she does now. (Which, I think, is not that big. She did not have 17 million bargaining chips at the end of the primaries; the chips had their own ideas.) They'll applaud. She can be a critic from the Senate, and if her criticisms are valid then they'll have some effect. (She'll have her hands tied until there's something that unmistakably deserves criticism, but that's as a result of wanting to be taken seriously--no sour grapes about her campaign debt--not as a result of having turned down an offer to work for him rather than with him.)

However it turns out, the Dems would be idiots to fight Obama's nomination for a second term--if he's done that poorly, voters aren't going to put in an I-told-you-soer from the same party, they'll let a reasonably competent Republican have a turn. If both parties are beyond hapless, Bloomburg can finance his own independent campaign.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Adrienne — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:14:52 -0000

I've read ALL of your comments, and it seems you guys are all missing the forest for the trees. While I think that he IS genuinely interested in listening to honest strong willed people and seeking advice from people who disagree with him now or may disagree with him in the future. He wants to seek the advice of the best and the brightest, and HRC fits the bill, because he is comfortable in his own skin and has faith in his own abilities EVEN if he isn't the smartest guy in the room at any particular time about any particular subject. But, that doesn't come close to answering TNC's question about the true *political* reasoning behind it. Let's look past the surface shall we....

First, this is classic Obama strategy, pure and simple. This guy is RUTHLESS. Obama is offering this to box her in and neutralize her power if she accepts it, and/or knock her down a peg and expose her if she doesn't. If she accepts, she is out of the Senate and her political power base is largely neutralized. It would be largely considered improper for her to politically engage as SoS. Right now, HRC is the *most* dangerous person to his administration. She poses the largest threat - forget Pelosi and Reid - it is HRC who would have the power to do the most damage if she were to decide to publicly criticize his administration and/or challenge him in 2012. If she's in the administration, she can't sh!t on it. AND, it gives her incentive to truly hope that the Obama administration is successful (and therefore not try to undermine it) whether or not she chooses to run in 2016 because her political future or legacy will largely depend on Obama's success (or failure).

If she chooses to turn him down, it just shows, once and for all that she's all about self. How would it look if the President-Elect personally asked her to serve her nation at a time of great national turmoil and she turns him down to stay in the Senate as the Junior Senator from NY? Seriously, what REAL excuse could she give to turn him down that wouldn't get her completely slayed in the media? That public lashing, if it were to happen would make her politically unviable for the forseeable future and if she did ever decide to criticize him after she declined a personal invitation to serve in the cabinet she would be laughed out of the room.

All in all, politics is a chess game and Obama is not just looking at the board as it is, but is looking at the board as it might be and anticipating many moves away. This just might be checkmate on HRC.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Dug — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:06:58 -0000

Joe Lieberman = Horace Grant

The betrayal still stings.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

John — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:52:35 -0000

Am I the only person who basically just expects Obama to be eminently competent, not the Jesus of progressive politics?

I don't need to be delivered. I just need to be competently and thoughtfully governed.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

kellyinaustin — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:39:25 -0000

Heck yeah...it freaks me out too...it is like an echo chamber.

"team of rivals" "team of rivals" "team of rivals"

but you know...we are really just speculating what is really going on....

who knows if he asked clinton to be sec. of state...maybe he just wanted to hear what she has to say...

we don't know..it is driving me crazy...let's just see what happens.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Robert — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:37:30 -0000

First time post here...

While I definitely see Obama regretting the leak on this case, I think the "Team of Rivals" aspect is positive. If Obama can avoid a squabbling cabinet, I think that the variety of viewpoints would not only be healthy like everyone says, but possibly a unifying force in our country. I really hope that this administration will mark at least a reduction (is that too much to hope for) of the gridlock and the culture wars.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Sorn — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:31:09 -0000

The historical anaologies have officially gone too far. Obama isn't Lincoln, FDR, Harry Truman, Jimmy Carter, Fredrick Douglass, or Jesus Christ.(Sarcasm warning.) Although I was hoping he would turn out to be the re-incarnated spirit of Malcom X because this time our chickens really have come home to roost. (end warning)

Seriously Barack Obama is a man with a hell of a lot of work to do. Like every other president we have had, including G.W. Bush, he will do the best he can to promote the American National interest as he sees it. He is neither a historical force or a messiah. In my personal opinion Equaiting Obama with any of our great presidents cheapens the man himself. It is not our place to say just yet exactly what impact an Obama presidency will have on our nation because we cannot know what he will do until he actually endeavors to do it.

Currently in this country we have a lot of problems both with our foreign policy and our domestic situation. There is no magic pill that will suddenly restore America and fix everything that has gone wrong during the last 8 years. Certainly a good start is reversing some of the more odious practices of the current administration. However balancing the budget, pulling troops out of Iraq, and providing free health care to all Americans is no guaruntee of future greatness. Unfortunately for presidents they are often overtaken by unforseen events. How Obama deals with these unplanned for eventualities will ultimately determine how his Presidency is seen by posterity. We cannot know for sure wether Obama will be a good president or a bad one. However we can hope that he will do the best he is able, and try to make rational informed decisions about policy that are based on the world as it is not the world as he would like it to be.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Robert M — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:08:04 -0000

I became an Obama supporter when I made the decision he was competent to rule the country from an executive perspective. Bush was E Stanley O'Neal(MER) he only wanted results that fit his political picture:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11....

I want him to be Dick Parsons(TWX), i.e. someone whom has a broad outlook on what he wants done, competent people to do and a no nonsense manner.

Obama is currently doing much to undermine this view w/ the hiring of many Clinton Staffers. I do understand that finding White House staff w/ experience is difficult given the political nature of the job.

The Clinton's are guaranteed to turn the Sec of State position into this:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+world+revolves+around+me+little+jackie&search_type=&aq=0&oq=the+world+revolves+around+me

Even if HRC is cool and clinical WC is not. He couldn't keep it under control for her campaign how is he going to do it when she is not a free actor, i.e. HRC works for Obama.

As to keep your enemies closer how do you control an ex-President whom has a platform through his charity to criticize foreign policy?

Last of all I am a hater when it comes to them. I never wanted Clinton to be President. His abuse of poor ugly white women whom worked for him was the start. He was the Governnor of Arkansas where there had to be a older woman of means whom could discreetly carry out an affair. The idea of a Co-Presidency was an insult to the office. Then HRC's healthcare plan as published and verified as accurate had as much success chance of success as a Stalinst five year economic plan.(like glass production all two hundred thousand metric tons of it beeing 1m by 3m by 6cm yet all the windows are 2m by 2.5m by 3cm). Lastly HRC's overt appeal to race and class in her campaign exposing the fracture lines of her own party was an act of treason. They both belong on the 8th level of hell constantly scurrying about to maintain their space in two sections of of the 8th level.

A choice of the Clintons for anything means the vampires live. I walk if HRC is elevated into the executive branch of government

Re: Team of rivals rant...

ty — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:00:53 -0000

Oh, and Bill Bradley = Bill Bradley, just to make it really meta.

Re: Team of rivals rant...

ty — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:59:15 -0000

Bobby Jindal = Kobe Bryant

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Watson — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:27:54 -0000

Rev. Louis Wright = Craig Hodges

Re: Team of rivals rant...

Dug — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:09:48 -0000

Rather than an Uncanny X-Men metaphor, I prefer to use the 95-98 Chicago Bulls:

Obama = Jordan

Biden = Pippen

Clinton = Rodman

Rahm Emmanuel = Phil Jackson

Bill Richardson = Tony Kukoc