The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Super Bowl Open Thread

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

brianrw — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:11:28 -0000

JK,

With all due respect, you are an effing moron. You are utterly clueless about football and other things, apparently. I think I hear your mom calling.

See you in Sixburgh.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Paul Gilmartin — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:23:51 -0000

Okay guys, I've enjoyed the back and forth but I'm bugging out (it's almost 48 hours since the incompletion, oops, fumble, that ended the game).

Take care all and catch you all in August for preseason (damn that's a long time from now!)

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

JK — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:06:29 -0000

Brian,

You can't handle the truth so you simply deny it. You need to take your blinders off and recognize what's true and what's false.

Maybe, one day you'll be cured of your delusions.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Stacy — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:03:05 -0000

JK has taken it too far, but he's right about the officiating. Especially the second to last play.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

brianrw — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:47:09 -0000

Mike Pereira is in great company when it comes to telling incredible lies.

“We confirmed it was a fumble, the replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble. The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control.”

-- Mike Pereira

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”

-- George W. Bush

"I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."

-- Dick Cheney

Posted by JK | February 3, 2009 2:18 PM

You are really getting pathetic, kid. Too bad that the first two quotes are true - Mr. Plame even confirmed the second one. The third is what is known as a being wrong - about as wrong as one could hope to be.

I must admit to feeling some serious schadenfreude over your sad ranting, though.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

CitizenE — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:05:58 -0000

A long time ago, the year that the Raiders upset the Redskins in the Super Bowl, the Redskins who were everyone's favorite beat the 49ers in the NFC championship game on the basis of not one but two very specious pass interference calls. No real 49er fan will forget them, nor forget how Lawerence Taylor forced a Roger Craig fumble near the end of a game in another NFC championship, a game in which victory was in their grasp. The two taken together could have meant that the 49ers today would have 7 rings. Those 2 calls in the Redskins game--on Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright--were outrageous and really did change the outcome of the game.

I wanted the Cardinals to win, but I don't buy this refs business. JK--here's the truth: the Cardinals played a sloppy game and lost in part as a result. Period. Get over it. They lost, and dig it, JK, in the last two minutes, Ben Roethlisberger put on a drive that was only equalled or bettered by one--the very greatest of all time--quarterback ever. Live with it.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

JK — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:18:08 -0000

Mike Pereira is in great company when it comes to telling incredible lies.

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”

-- George W. Bush

"I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."

-- Dick Cheney

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

brianrw — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:45:39 -0000

Why didn't the Steelers get penalized 15 yards for Santonio Holmes using the football as a prop after he scored that final TD?

Why wasn't the final play of the game reviewed to reach a definitive conclusion as to whether Warner fumbled the ball or not?

Posted by JK | February 2, 2009 5:55 PM

Your memory seems a tad selective, JK.

Did you miss Roethlisberger's first touchdown run being overturned on what certainly did not look like "irrefutable proof?"

Maybe you missed Warner's fumble that was overturned into an incomplete pass on similarly flimsy grounds.

You'll get over the massive injustice of SB43 by the time you grow up (I think).

BTW, the last play should have been reviewed, but the idea that the calls were other than a wash is just ludicrous.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Other Mike — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:55:00 -0000

JK,

As for your discussion of health, may I remind you that Roethlisberger separated his THROWING shoulder in the season opener against Houston? He still played every single game for the Steelers, including the season ender where he sustained a concussion and was carted off the field on a spinal board leading into the playoffs. And I guess you forgot he got speared in the ribs on a (non-flagged) late hit during the AFC Championship game? You act like he's just playing Madden while Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are actually getting hit. Get over it. The guy is tough-as-nails, and a winner.

Cash,

Ragarding Ben's stats: Elway, taken over his whole career, was an undeniably great QB. [Contest that fact, and you condemn yourself to roam in the wilderness, howling unheard.]

But Elway looked like crap in three, maybe four Super Bowls, and looked a lot like Ben has so far in the two he won. Take Elway through his first two Super Bowls, and you get:

1 Rushing TD

2 Passing TDs

4 INTs

561 yards passing

Avg QB rating of 48.2, and that's not including the awful 19.4 he'd post in his next Super Bowl flop in 1990.

No MVPs

Zero Rings

Take Elway's first winning Super Bowl:

1 Rushing TDs

0 Passing TD

1 INT

123 yards passing

QB rating 51.9

No MVP

1 Ring

Over Elway's two winning Super Bowls:

2 Rushing TDs

1 Passing TD

2 INTs

459 yards passing total

Avg QB rating 75.5

1 MVP

2 Rings

You can't deny Elway was great in his last SB, and you can't deny Ben was MUCH better in SB43 than in SB40. Whether he'll be worthy of the Hall remains to be seen, as you rightly pointed out. But stats alone can be pretty misleading.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Stacy — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:15:16 -0000

I'm with you. I just think that you let it slip in a moment of honesty!

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Paul Gilmartin — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:52:20 -0000

Stacy,

Just an attempt at humour, not saying that's what I think.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Just Karl — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:59:38 -0000

Are you being serious? That is ridiculous.

OK. But remember I told you so.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

sherifffruitfly — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:09:16 -0000

It was fun and exciting, but only because the Stillers took a quarter off.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Stacy — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:41:34 -0000

Paul,

I'm confused. What you just described is an incomplete pass. You just perfectly said what I've been saying.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Paul Gilmartin — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:23:44 -0000

Stacy,

No, he's not being serious, he's just trying to get a rise out of someone.

As for the arm moving forward, it seems to me like we're analyzing the zapruder film:

Frame 27: Warners hand reaches the furthest backward point

Frame 28: the hand begins forward motion, yet the defender has not contacted the ball at this point

Frame 29: Woodley's hand makes contact with the football

Frame 30: the ball begins to "roll" in Warners hand

Frame 31: Ben takes a knee and the game is over

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Paul Gilmartin — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:10:46 -0000

Keith,

My bad, when you said "they ruled it incomplete", I thought you were talking about the first "fumble" and not Brady's tuck/fumble. I guess we got our wires crossed!

Stacy,

No offence meant, just checking that we were on the same page. The first "fumble" was correctly reversed since Warner's arm was moving forward before the ball came out.

Isn't it funny how replay is supposed to make it clear cut and yet we're having this discussion?

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Stacy — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:00:20 -0000

Just Karl,

Are you being serious? That is ridiculous.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Just Karl — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:32:43 -0000

One thing I've been thinking about is the possibility that James Harrison used steroids to get where he is. The circumstantial evidence is there. Domestic abuse,

Crooked club house doctors , team history of abuse. This guy got cut by the Steelers 3 times. And now, all of sudden, he's the NFL Defensive Player of the Year. Last year they were going to give DPOY to Shawn Merriman.

If it were true, I think the Cards would have a legitimate gripe about the game being stolen.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

joel — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:24:22 -0000

I don't care about the last play, but Pereira has zero credibility. His job is to back up his refs. NFL rule enforcement is only marginally better than the other leagues and ultimately no official is going to admit major error in a situation like that. I'm just hoping they kill the excessive celebration rule in light of Holmes' impromptu Lebron tribute. The rule is garbage and I would have enjoyed seeing it ruin the game on it's biggest stage.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

keith — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:30:11 -0000

Gil-

You said, "it's the hand not the arm that has to be moving forward"

Yet, the link of the rule that YOU provided clearly states: "...any intentional movement of his ARM starts a forward pass".

I'm sorry, but I have to take Mike Periera's comments with a grain of salt. I think they clearly blew the review process at the end of the game, there is no way that a proper review coulds have taking place in time from the end of the play to the point when the Steelers kneeled the ball. Hell even in the replay you linked, the announcer said one ref was ruling fumble, one ref was ruling incomplete. We saw two replays, then the Steelers kneeling the ball. There is no way the refs could have come together so quickly to make such a crucial decision on a play that was so important. The ref never went to the booth!!!

I am starting to feel like Stacy here, I don't understand how we could be arguing about what forward means. Now your saying his arm was going backwards...thats a new one. He clearly was reving up for a throw, when the guy hits the ball I think it is starting to go forward, according to the rules it is an incomplete pass. Nowhere in the rule book does it say that he has to have total control, in fact it says the opposite. Mike Periera is covring his ass.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

GilM — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:05:19 -0000

Ok, I guess this will never lead to consensus. It seems clear to me that the motion that ultimately pushed the ball forward did not begin with the passer in total control of the ball. It was, as Mike Pereira said "rolling in his hand."

I'm talking about this clip:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e84f48&filter=cant-miss-plays&categoryId=featured

at around 0:27 seconds it seems clear to me that the ball is hit and Warner loses "control of ball" when his hand is still moving backwards. It's the hand not the arm that has to be moving forward.

If you guys see something else, I can't imagine what it is. I think I'm open-minded about this, and I'm completely satisfied that it was a fumble.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

Stacy — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:39:37 -0000

That's only applicable if his hand wasn't moving forward before the ball was knocked loose. I think his hand was clearly moving forward.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

keith — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:35:00 -0000

Gil-

Well, no. If you read the second paragraph of the rule it states:

"When a passer is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his arm starts a forward pass. If a defensive player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player."

I think its clear what the rule says. I am of the opinion that he was intentionally starting the process of a forward pass, and his arm was going forward when the guy hits it, loosens it and as the rule says even if he loosens the ball after forward movements begins it is a pass. I think the argument is was he moving his arm forward, I think he was as do alot of other people. The ball cant go forward unless the arm holding is also moving forward. It wasn't batted forward, it was thrown forward...gotta love football...

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

GilM — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:21:11 -0000

Keith,

That's not the applicable rule. It's this one:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/protectionofpasser

If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.

Re: Super Bowl Open Thread

JK — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:14:19 -0000

Paul Gilmartin,

1. As far as Ben's TD run in the 1st quarter, I believe the refs got this one right.

2. You might be correct about this play.

Despite the lapses in judgment by the refs which generally favored the Steelers, this was one of the great 4th quarters in Super Bowl history.

It was a heart pounding, gut wrenching 15 minutes of football and exciting as hell to watch.

The game was incredibly entertaining. Every Super Bowl should come down to the last few minutes of the 4th quarter.