The Atlantic - Latest Comments in She is who we thought she was

Re: She is who we thought she was

Kill Brystol — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:29:32 -0000

I think they use "elitist" because "Jew" got used up (and they think they can get some more support from Jews who've mistaken themselves for White Men), and they want to keep "faggot" for special public occasions and "nigger" for their private sex games.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Carrington Ward — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:22:36 -0000

The best Democrats have been elitists: specifically FDR and, to a lesser extent, JFK.

The problem Democrats have had is that they rarely have the courage of their convictions. At one end, Stevenson was cowed by Truman's example, while Kerry didn't have the self confidence to wind surf with pride.

One of Obama's strengths is this core conviction: his willingness to believe in his own merit, and his lack of chagrin about putting his tie on straight and tight.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Thomas R — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:58:58 -0000

Also yes McCain is of an elite. Bush was certainly of an elite and benefited an elite to a large degree.

Something I read recently stated the two parties are more a battle of different elites. Republicans are said prefer elite businessmen and soldiers while Democrats prefer elite lawyers and scholars. I'm not sure this entirely works, but there is some support for the idea.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Thomas R — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:48:21 -0000

I'm voting for McCain, but I'd agree that Lynn Forester de Rothschild calling Obama elitist is a bit strange unless her pre-Rothschild days were unusually poor and narrow. They don't appear to be though as she'd apparently made a hundred million before she ever met de Rothschild. (In fairness she doesn't seem to go with the title "Lady" in the interview I found)

It's not just that she's rich. She apparently honeymooned at the White House and is well-connected to the world's most powerful people. She was introduced to "de Rothschild" by Henry Kissenger and meets with the Prime Minister of India. So it's not even like some wealthy people I know who lived somewhat sheltered lives and never got much education.

ht-tp://www.portfolio.com/view...

Re: She is who we thought she was

Jaybird — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:25:23 -0000

Wow, that is a great video...

But I think it kinda does leave an opening for my original interpretation, now that I've seen it...

But, yeah. I can totally see the goldmine of parodiable (is that a word? I guess it is now) material in those few seconds.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Robert M — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:55:02 -0000

Jaybird

Please just watch the video. It is not a mash up. This is an actual press conference my an NFL coach.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Diana — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:22:11 -0000

""Lady" de Rothchilds main reason for not endorsing McCain?" i think you meant to write "obama"

Re: She is who we thought she was

T Harris — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:10:40 -0000

Did the traditional culture of Yale feel stuffy? Well yes, and no.

The vast majority of students (unless you were an econ major who had a plan to make your first ten million) weren't stuffy. They were normal college kids, liberal and poorly dressed who eat way too much cheap pizza. Compared to my visits to places like Auburn?? Ivy Leaguers were super liberal dirty hippies. ESPECIALLY Brown kids. Maybe not Dartmouth or Princeton kids.

This is not 1963. Yalies aren't all male, aren't all rich, aren't all white and don't attend sit-down dinners nightly with a cadre of servants and wearing white gloves. Getting in and graduating can be a mark of academic achievement. But in the current environment, based on my experience, it doesn't mean squat about elitist (I will grant you elite, in the sense of gaining a great deal from having an Ivy listed on your resume).

Re: She is who we thought she was

LeBren — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:02:51 -0000

@T Harris:

I'm not saying (and never said) an Ivy League degree makes you elite or an elitist. I am fully aware that there are plenty of people attending Ivy League schools that did not grow up privileged and studied hard to get into those schools. However, denying that an Ivy League degree is recognized as a symbol of privilege and elitism seems silly. In part, that's why people who aren't privileged and elite work their ass off to go there.

As a kid who grew up poor in the 'hood, are you really telling me that at Brown or Yale, or wherever you got your degree, you didn't feel like the place was a little stuffy? I grew up a middle class dork, and I never felt poor until I went off to a midwestern liberal arts college. But everything's good in Ivy land?

Re: She is who we thought she was

T Harris — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:30:52 -0000

I promise you all that being an ivy leaguer mainly mainly means that are a MASSIVE dork and you probably had no social life in high school outside of the extrcurriculars that would look good on college apps.

Except for the boarding school kids. They're that 40% elite (actually I really mean elitist, not elite, because arguably we're elite now, although you cant tell it from my non-profit paycheck). And they had a realllllly good time in hs.

Re: She is who we thought she was

eric k — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:50:46 -0000

Jay Bird,

Thsi post isn;t about nayone voting for McCain over Obama. It is about the group of people who's voting preference went 1) Hillary, 2) McCain, 3) Obama (and specifically Lady de ...). There is a rational justification someone can have for that order, but it is pretty thin. And it certainly isn't that Obama is an elitist.

I'd say of course Obama is an elitist, so is McCain and Palin and Bush and Gore and Kerry and Huckabee and anyone else who thinks they are qualified to be President. You better think your one of the elite.

Re: She is who we thought she was

T Harris — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:22:44 -0000

As an ivy league grad who grew up poor in the 'hood, but had a Mom who worked two jobs [and wielded a mean belt] to get me there, it is so gratifying to know that I am somehow "elite" now.

I'll be sure to tell that to Emily Pataki or Victoria Weld next time we're chatting on their Daddy's yacht in the Hamptons, right after I finish paying my student loans off sometime in 2013...

Getting into an Ivy League school means you're smart and worked your ass off, and for maybe 40% (the percentage who recieved no finncial aid my freshman year) Daddy wrote a big check. The rest of us just wanted a better life.

Re: She is who we thought she was

LeBren — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:34:18 -0000

@AKBY:

And how many of the presidents on your list had to "work hard" to get into an Ivy League school? With the exception of Bill Clinton, I'm not seeing anybody.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of your first comment was to refute the equivocation of an Ivy League education with elitism - however, you chose to do so by listing recipients of an Ivy League education who went on to become President of the United States, a position long held (and created by) power hungry rich white guys. Lincoln, Clinton, potentially Obama, and a few others have broken through occasionally, but in general, it is a title reserved for the privileged and elite. The same can be said of Ivy League schools.

I'm not saying don't work hard and don't have dreams, but I am saying don't work hard just to be part of the club :)

Re: She is who we thought she was

MoeLarryAndJesus — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:03:28 -0000

Every once in a while Marc Ambinder cracks me up with a one-liner. Here is his take on this big Lady de Trampstamp announcement:

"Breaking news: an incredibly wealthy white woman decided to back John McCain."

Re: She is who we thought she was

AKBY — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:39:28 -0000

Lebren:

So you equate an Ivy League education with elitism without caveats? A person who has actually worked hard to earn gets no special consideration in your mind?

Listen up kids! Lebren says: Don't aim for Harvard or you'll forever be labeled an elitist! Forget the American dream! Aspire to mediocrity!

Wonderful advice (gasp).

Re: She is who we thought she was

Jaybird — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:00:30 -0000

I am not an NFL fan, to be sure.

The first time I saw the line "they are who we thought they were" I had no idea that it was a line mocking a football coach... I honestly thought that it was saying "we all pretend that it's two principled opposing people looking eye to eye... but they are who we thought (in our hearts) they were and we should abandon the charade."

So please understand that *THAT* is how I've been reading any posts with a "they are who we thought they were" title.

Now that I know that it's a funny title making fun of a football coach... well, I'll try to lighten up.

Apologies, Ta-Nehisi.

Re: She is who we thought she was

bleigh82 — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:57:14 -0000

Well put. People throw around 'elitist' now with no regard. It's just silly half the time.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Mr. Shrimp — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:35:27 -0000

The whole "elitist" argument really has little to do with education, though there is a long history in this country of being suspicious of highly-educated people as those who rob you with a pen much more effectively than with a gun. I think it has more to do these days with your tastes as perceived by others, and how you comport yourself. If you seem intellectual, thoughtful, and have tastes that line up with cultural fare profiled by NPR, you're an elitist, regardless of background. If you like to clear brush, eat grilled meat, like rock and country, and see everything as a simple problem with a simple decisive solution, you're a regular person, regardless of background.

So, Obama appears elitist, and possibly even worse than someone born into money because he worked his way into it and chose it. Conversely, you have Bush. How McCain fits into it I'm not sure - in my eyes he seems neither in the Democrat Gore/Kerry "elitist" mode nor the Bush "regular guy" mode.

It's really the dumbest thing in the world, from either side, on which to base your vote. A "regular guy" could be a great president, as could an "elitist." But in this image war, the Dems get their ass handed to them continuously.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Libertarian — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:28:54 -0000

LeBren,

Nobody is going to solve this country's problems. That is why my posts mostly consist of comments on campaign strategy, not substance. There isn't any substance and what substance there is will end up so watered down by inside the beltway politicking that it won't matter. And, there is less substance on the most important issues....long term economic outlook, debt, globalisation. Much easier to talk about tax cuts and education, but means nothing in the scheme of things.

Also, this election will be close, so no mandate. No mandate, no ability to sweep in with momentum and shake things up. Clinton had a mandate but he f***d it up and never recovered. Reagan had a mandate and he took full advantage...agree w/his policies or not...he got a lot of his agenda accomplished.

It would take raising Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine and FDR from the grave to get this country back on track. And even then, its possible, since they might not turn out to be telegenic, that nobody would listen to them.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Deborah — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:27:40 -0000

Just once I want one of the media places giving Lady de R. time and space to press her on where she gets her information about how regular blue-collar voters feel.

a) She roams around southeastern Ohio in disguise: elastic waist pants, a sensible sweater in a pattern that hides coffee spills, and shoes from Payless. She drives an old beater, obtained by purchasing a new Mercedes on each visit and then trading it with a lucky soul she met along the way, usually at a gas station that doesn't even have an air pump. She roams the state: the Walmarts, the Kentucky Frieds, the places where the common, red-blooded, true Americans live. And they look her in the eye, and say "Lynn....I can call you Lynn, right?....That Obama guy, I'm just not comfortable with him. I feel like he's an elitist, almost like some billionaire who doesn't even live here...."

b) She can just tell.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Joel — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:21:26 -0000

"He used it after he lost a game to a crappier team everyone would have thought he'd beat, right?"

No, he used it after the Cardinals lost to the Bears, who would go to the Superbowl that season. But anything to jam a square analogy in a round hole, I guess. I'm going to wager that you're not an NFL fan.

Re: She is who we thought she was

LeBren — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:13:21 -0000

@ Libertarian: Yes, finding an image that resonates with voters is not necessarily morally reprehensible, however the same cannot be said for finding an image that resonates with voters and is untrue or based on lies, and then exploiting it, which, as you hint at, has been a strategy of both Democrats and Republicans in varying degrees. Beyond discussing the "image war" in terms of partisan campaign tactics, what I'm saying is that people - Republicans, Democrats, radicals, libertarians, whatever - need to recognize how problematic this form of campaign politics is, and how damaging it will be to actually solving problems in this country, no matter what side you're on.

@AKBY: For me, you're comment mostly serves as a reminder that our country was founded by, and has long remained in the power of, elitists.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Green — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:13:13 -0000

The idea that graduating from Harvard is a bad thing is ridiculous. It's straight haterade. You disapprove of Harvard degree because you don't have one, never could've had one. But let one of these "he's an elitist" folks' little son or daughter get into Harvard and see how long it takes them to stop bragging to anybody who'll listen.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Livbertarian — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:11:38 -0000

Robert M,

The author is correct, but you will never convince the Democrats of this...they will continue to fall back on the rote excuses that the country is full of stupid people [it is, but that's not why they vote Republican] and the Republicans are evil and win elections by dirty tricks.

It took me a LONG time to begin to understand the American conservative heartland mindset as it is, and not as I 'think' it is or as it should be, but once I was able to see things more clearly I was able to let go of some issues and I was able to see very, VERY clearly why conservatives believe its the liberals who are the real authoritarian, fascists.

And that is when I stopped identifying myself as a liberal, and as the years go by I become increasingly embarrassed that I ever identified with some of these beliefs.

Re: She is who we thought she was

Robert m — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:06:11 -0000

I totally disagree w/ you about Green's statement and the Bears are my heart team. It was totally true despite the fact the Bears went to the super bowl-look how that turned out.

Green posited that the Bears were not very good on offense-we played them in the preseason. In the game they put up nothing. The defense and the absolute choke-fumbles, intereceptions and celebrating before the final whistle-on the part of the Cardinals offense was how the Bears won. That is why he said we let them off the hook.

One more time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_N1OjGhIFc

This is still funny.