The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Read this story...

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Bruce — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:03:28 -0000

Regardless of your points...which by the way are true...i stand by my assessment that a bjj (or sambo or any submission) fighter stands a much better chance in close combat than a pure wrestler....and i stand by that, because of the pure fact that...regardless of organisation or rule-changes...a fighter, with a wrestling base...is, essentially powerless, once put on his back...this is of course also true against another wrestler...wrestling by it's nature can only account for half of the fighting scenario...the other half must be taught through some for of grappling and submission-techniques...which then become essential when fighting in the ufc or any organistation you would like to consider...a guy like Maia will eventually have to learn stand-up...because of the historical fact that, wrestlers when faced with a much more prolific ground-man...often choose the stand-up...for the fear of either being put on their backs, or being submitted while in a dominant position.

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Nam — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:18:01 -0000

lolz. Yes, that's exactly what I did. I equated a misspelling to a 100% sure indicator of fan duration. Obviously the phrase "can't help but get the impression" indicates that I was intending to make some absolute argument on that matter.

Okay, moving on...

I agree that most fighters must have some issues to be doing what they do. I think Chris Leben said it best (amazingly) with this quote:

"I always say fighters are like strippers, they ain't paying their way through college. What I mean by that, is that you know we all have a bunch of skeletons in our closet. We're fighters."

As for hating on the LnP type wrestlers... For a long time, I used to hate watching this type of fighter as well. Strikers and submission artists seem to fit the bill of 'true' martial artists rather than a guy that would take you down and lie on top of you for 15 minutes. Still, the evolution of MMA rules has really taken away a lot of their tools and they would be perhaps even more dominant in a more NHB environment.

Remember back in the day you had guys like Kerr and Coleman who could overpower a guy and hold them down. When headbutts and gouging were allowed, fighters like this couldn't be stopped. With headbutts, a guy like Kerr didn't really need any separation or need to post up to land strikes. As a result, BJJ guys wouldn't have much room to work and they'd be effectively smothered. Of course, during that time, weight classes weren't really in effect either so that might've accounted for the gross power disparity.

A submission artist's success will greatly depend on the rules and environment. For example, BJJ guys had a lot more success in PRIDE for a multitude of reasons. (1) Round 1 was 10 minutes, allowing more time for the sub guy to work while on the ground. (2) No elbows allowed, meaning a guy on top will have to post up and extend his arms to strike (leaving him more open to submissions and sweeps). (3) Ring instead of cage, so a guy in guard won't be smooshed against a chain link fence but moved to the center where he can work. (4) Judging criteria that rewards submission attempts and effort to finish a fight more than 'control.'

Under UFC rules, it is an uphill climb for BJJ artists against solid wrestlers that can keep control of their opponent. A wrestler would need to learn submission defense, but not necessarily offensive techniques because the status quo of being in another guy's guard wins him the fight under current judging criteria. Thus, it's great to see guys with legit BJJ skills work in the octagon. As you mention, Maia is one. Hopefully more guys like him come along and add some variety to the usual UFC wrestling and brawling dynamic.

I still can't believe you spelled it 'Mirco' though... C'mon man!

Re: Read this story...

Bruce — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:40:55 -0000

Nam...

yes, me misspelling mirco pavlovic name is synonymous with me being a "new fan"...yeah ok...real persuasive arguments there dude...

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Nam — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:27:09 -0000

So 2-time former UFC HW Champ Sylvia is a patsy now? How about interim UFC Champ Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira?

Yakuza permeates Japanese culture, and even legit businesses are not immune. They aren't like the mafia in the US. Educate yourself on the issue and understand what you're talking about before you use it in an argument.

If you know anything about the history of MMA in Japan, you know that it evolved from the various pro-wrestling promotions that wanted to move to legitimate combat sports. As a result, a clear delineation between the two did not exist until later. For the first few PRIDE shows, a handful of fights were fixed. For the next decade, there hasn't been any evidence of predetermined fights.

As I said earlier, it's a pity that a new generation of fans now so easily dismiss a whole decade of great MMA. It's likely a combination of ignorance and a desire to feel that they haven't come 'late to the party' (so to speak).

I like MMA under the UFC banner and I follow everyone event. But, I'm not oblivious as to believe that Zuffa is above shady dealings. Lorenzo was on the commission that denied UFC it's athletic licensing under its previous owner. This is *after* all the new rules and safety changes (in place well before Zuffa took over, even though Dana would have you believe otherwise). This effectively killed off the UFC which was soon bought buy, of course, the Fertitas. Didn't have trouble getting their license after that, did they?

In any case, my point stands that new fans seem to have an aversion to digging deeper into the circumstances of how MMA became the way it is today. Like the post above shows, it is probably much easier to write off a decade of great MMA with some vague references to steroids (not illegal in Japan btw) and the yakuza, then to actually take the time to learn about it. My original post wasn't an attempt to start an argument but just wishful ramblings that more attention would be devoted to MMA's history previous to the past couple years.

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BrianSierk — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:49:37 -0000

If and When Emilianenko fights someone other than a Patsy, I will resume my 4 year interest in him.

He has expressed interest in a Lesnar Fight. I will pay to watch that. I doubt it will happen.

The Difficulty with the Pride years, especially for US fans, is that it was dominated by yakuza, there was widespread steroid use (no testing) and evidence that some of the fights were fixed.

In the US there is some testing, and while Dana White is an A$$hat, no-one has accused him of mob ties or paying people to take dives.

Re: Read this story...

Nam — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:21:51 -0000

Agreed about the strange convergence between MMA fans and the Atlantic. Apparently there are a handful.

Still I can't help but get the impression that everyone that has just commented above is a relative newcomer to the sport. From not knowing that Faber has been brutally KTFO'd, to misspelling Mirko Crocop's first name, to having a whole discussion about MMA icons without concentrating on MMA's most enduring and amazing figures (and currently the greatest MMA fighter in the world), Fedor Emelianenko, it appears that only the Zuffa-approved version of MMA has really reached the mainstream. That's to be expected, however.

Before, top-level MMA could only be accessed by staying up until dawn watching internet streams and broadcasts of events occurring in Japan. There were many great stories then, and the 'hardcore' MMA fans here in North America that kept the torch burning still long for what were considered the golden years of MMA.

It's a shame that it took so long for the media here to notice MMA since there were so many compelling stories in MMA prior to the UFC's recent revival. Rampage vs Wandy part 3 is the Godfather part 3 in comparison to the drama and buildup surrounding the first two. Fedor vs Crocop was perhaps the most anticipated and epic encounter in MMA history. To the new fan, these fights are just footnotes and backstory to the current MMA landscape.

It's just unfortunate that not enough attention was given to MMA during this time. I could've been enjoying well-written pieces like this Rampage story instead of nonsensical Babelfish Japanese to English translated blocks of text. Hopefully, MMA's history will be given it's proper reverence and place. Right now, MMA is being written about as if it were some new, recently discovered strain of a contagious disease. 'This just in...MMA.' Makes for a more exciting story to the uninitiated, but really works to mask the fact that great things have already happened in the sport.

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Hill Rat — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:42:03 -0000

Who knew the Atlantic drew so many MMA fans?

Not that anyone else should care, but it really isn't a good time to be a writer interested in the long-form.

Boooooo! I hope to trade in my current position as an Analyst/Tech Writer in for something more satisfying in the next few years. I was hoping that something might be a straight writing gig; either long form or fiction, TV writing in particular.

You're confusing me a bit here TC. You say that it's a bad time to be a writer interested in the long form and then you go on to show that the long form is alive and well with this great piece. But not only is it being appreciated it's being appreciated in a different way than it has in the past, with the readers using it as a springboard for their own thoughts and discussions. To top it all off, you're actively promoting the long form in a new and different way to a new audience. FWIW, on the strength of this blog I asked for a subscription to the Atlantic for Christmas this year and I doubt that I'm the only new reader that you've brought into the fold.

Re: Read this story...

Hill Rat — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:23:34 -0000

Who knew the Atlantic drew so many MMA fans?

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sgwhiteinfla — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:21:41 -0000

Wallyz

Thanks for the video. I don't think Brown would win a rematch with Faber. He just got caught doing some wild sh!t he shouldn't have done. But it happens. I am sure sooner or later Silva will go down too. Thats one thing I love about MMA is that you can't play it safe and coast through a match. You can get knocked the eff out by anybody.

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BrianSierk — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:07:10 -0000

Re: Faber-Brown

I thought Mike Brown stood up better against Faber that anyone else I have seen. That said, he won because Faber thew a poorly executed flying elbow, and Brown jammed him with a right under the elbow.

Video:

http://www.worldofcombat.net/mike-brown-vs-urijah-faber-video.html

I think Silva's psyche is suspect after the Cote fight. That was bizarre.

As to Lesnar being a poor jiu jitsu player-

I think we saw the last time he got beat by poor jiujitso skills in the Mir fight. He was winning that fight by a wide margin, and he was pissed and intense about not letting it happen again. Nog usually covers and catches, but I think Lesnar is going to punish him and be careful about his feet

Re: Read this story...

Bruce — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:27:36 -0000

Yeah well..i didn't say you where either...take a chill pill man! well, if they do add a weightclass i.e. superheavyweight or something like that, we would be looking at a 3 man tournament with brock and two other big men to be named later. It's not a viable solution...i rather have him take out guys 20-30 pounds lighter...atleast they have the skillset. and you overlook the fact that Gonzaga et al. might want to move up another 10-20 pounds...let alone the fact that Brock hasn't taken one decent shot from anyone...no one has tested this guys chin...it's not decided yet...and i'm still sceptical!

now...i'm going to continue watch romo throw dallas season away. and then im going to cry into my pillow...

Re: Read this story...

sgwhiteinfla — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:18:45 -0000

Bruce

I think basically we are in agreement here, but I think Brock's inexperience is a plus because I think back to what Liddell looked like at first and what he turned into. I look at what Bisping looked like and what he has become. Let me repeat this though so you don't forget, I HATE BROCK LESNAR AS A PERSON. I am not a fan like that. But I just think his combination of size, speed, background, and demeanor suggest that he will only get better and that spells trouble for anybody who doesn't fight him in the next year or so. Two years from now I think we will be talking about how cats are actually scared to face him, seriously. And we might even be talking about a new weight class being added. Honestly I think one should be added in boxing and MMA. If you don't want guys under 220 pounds fighting someone 30 pounds heavier than them, why would you want someone who weights 230 fighting someone who weighs more than 50 pounds more than them. That aint cool.

Re: Read this story...

Bruce — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:37:58 -0000

@sgwhiteinfla

if you looked closely, i'm no purist...i'm a MMA-fan...BJJ is the one discipline that encompasses all aspects of the ground-game, not just when you're on top...of course, often when wrestlers are up against BJJ-artists, they tend to choose to stand and bang...but if i would want to make an argument that BJJ trumps all, it wouldn't be far off. BJJ-artists (or those who have mastered BJJ) have been consistent, and often have an upper hand on wrestlers...as a fan, i enjoy the technical aspects of BJJ much more than the ground and pound game, which is another reason to like BJJ...it's so much more than just shooting...laying on your opponent like a leach, and then looking for an opening in the guard. The counterargument to this is that, many BJJ-artists draw guard and try to counter on the opponent laying on top of them...both of these are not "optimal" for the fans, but i would prefer the later.

You're assessment of Silva is on the money though, and i would argue that having a wider knowledge, and being able to attack the opponent both by stand-up and on the ground is always to be premiered. But it's also the matter of how you do it, i wouldn't say BJJ trumps all, but it's definetly the better option if you want a good ground game, than relying on greco-roman wrestling. One reason for this, is that when it comes to MMA, BJJ already has an endpoint that suites the format...submission...in the case of greco-roman, it only encompasses the defense of takedowns...and the offensive aspect of actually taking your opponent on the ground...i.e. shooting...once on the ground, a new game-plan has to be devised...which has very limited roots in wrestling...

I've watched Mir yapp about that bout for a while now...in his guest-appearance on ESPN he came of as a real douche...blowhard if u will. i like his skills, but he runs his mouth like he's still the champ. He took on a pure rookie, and unmasked one of the very obvious flaws of that rookie's game. i dont question the physical aspects of Brocks game. He is a beast...and wrestling gives him very good tools to work with, he's quick, he's agile. But he's not technically sound (and that cannot be compensated by simply training for 3 separate moments in a fight)...

I would like to see him against Fedor, Nogueira, against a guy like Gonzaga, who is a beast...with the combination that you spoke of BBJ-MT (i still can't get over the knockout he landed on Mirco Crocop). One thing you must remember about Brock Lesnar...he went 2 bouts before getting a title-shot, and before that he had run around in spandex-shorts and faked head-butts and clotheslines for 4 years. His division is not deep, so he'll probably hold on to the title for a couple of years, but then again...the talent-pool in UFC has always been deepest in the lighter divisions.

Re: Read this story...

sgwhiteinfla — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:25:20 -0000

Bruce

You seem to be saying that BJJ trumps all, but I think the guys who are MOST successful combine BJJ and Muay Thai. Anderson Silva is a prime example. He is no doubt sick in BJJ but most of his best fights ended because of his Muay Thai strikes. Put simply, he knocks people the phuck out on the regular. But if he needs to he can submit them as well. To me when the majority of cats who are champions for any length of time have wrestling back grounds that says that its a good thing, not a bad one. Now they all still need to learn BJJ to be able to compete at a high level but most of them do AND Muay Thai is as or more important to their development if you ask me. One of the biggest things about having wrestling background isn't so much the shooting part, its the sprawling part where you keep people from taking YOU to the ground where not being proficeint in BJJ can be exposed. Thats how Liddell used his wrestling back ground and to a certain extent thats how Rampage uses his as well. What I think you aren't acknowledging Bruce is that guys continue to learn for as long as they go through the sport. Brock Lesnar is not the final product right now. And he has actually tried some BJJ moves (americanas) in the few matches he has had so far which shows that he has someone teaching him at least a little BJJ. When the guy learns a little more BJJ and a little more Muay Thai he is going to go from beast status to monster status in a hurry.

But damm what you and I think, check out what Mir said about the guy after he fought him.

http://www.frankmir.com/?q=node/22

I started training about 10 weeks out from the fight and worked on striking and jiu jitsu. I also worked on take down defense against the cage which turned out to not be needed but you have to train all aspects of mma to be ready for a fight. You never know where a fight is going to go. We thought that Brock was going to stand and punch to stay away from going to the ground with me. In one way I was glad he did take me down but I have to tell you, his ground and pound was ferocious. He was so quick, so agile, so strong it wasn’t funny. Actually, during the fight I was thinking and kind of laughing to myself is this guy for real. I mean he took me down passed the guard and as I was transitioning he ended up on my opposite side before I knew it. Very very impressive.
.
I got to speak briefly with Brock after the fight and told him probably what he already knows, he is going to be a force and perhaps already is. My hat is off to the guy. He brings a lot to the sport. You have not seen anywhere close to the last of him.

Frank Mir isn't exactly known for handing out compliments to guys who he thinks are posers. And he is a BJJ black belt and was once considered the future of the sport before his bike accident and still may yet be. And don't forget that Randy Couture isn't exactly a slouch when it comes to BJJ.

Now I have to admit that I was rooting against the Lesnar for all 3 of his fights. But game recognizes game and dude is a beast!

Re: Read this story...

toxic — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:15:07 -0000

I disagree that MMA fighters are more prone to health problems than boxers or football players.

Boxers get hit in the head constantly, and when they get knocked down have the chance to get back up if they aren't utterly KO'd. The fights can also last longer, and they mostly take damage to the head and body. MMA fighters fight for less time, take less strikes to the head, and tend to lose fights pretty quickly once they get wobbly, so I think they take less damage to the brain. So far, knock on wood, nobody has died in a pro MMA fight, and there's probably a reason for that. Football players also spend a LOT more time playing each year than MMA fighters which would increase the potential for long term health problems. Also, while they wear pads, everyone has gotten way bigger so it might be a wash.

All pro athletes are prone to health problems later in life. Even golfers have back problems. The athletes chose to play anyway, and that is a rational choice.

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GKM — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:42:46 -0000

Thanks for pointing out this article, Ta. MMA is my favorite sport, and this piece was brilliant.

I believe Noguiera can beat Brock for the reasons Bruce illustrated above. Just when you think he's out, he pulls that amazing Gracie shit out of the sky. Brock is impressive, but Noguiera is a master.

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Bruce — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:25:51 -0000

jardine, henderson, vera have all taken up grappling...henderson is a beast i that sence...chuck is a pure banger...i haven't seen him shoot in 5 years..so he's off that list for sure...pulver, faber, ortiz, evans...yeah, i'll give you them, they're good enough fighters...maybe one or two of them have been tested against a real good grappler or submission-artist...my point is, and was...that a guy going up against a submission-artist, will have a very tough time, using his size-difference and his wrestling, simply because of the fact that BJJ is built on the premise that you will be smaller than your opponent. No other fighting is needed (according to the BJJ-artists...not me). Brock, will shoot...and a guy like Noguiera expects him too...i'm not saying it's a sure thing, but basing the whole assumption on brocks size and shooting/wrestling ability is speculative to say the least...a friend of mine, who's prominent in MMA told me once that, a wrestler is concerned about shootingafter that, he'll sit on the guy, and look for a way past his guard...hopefully he gets it, if not, he'll wait for the judges...

...a BJJ-artist is concerned about what happens after shooting...even if he's the one who's on his back...

Re: Read this story...

sgwhiteinfla — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:47:57 -0000

list of former college wrestlers who can bang with the best of them.

Rampage Jackson

Chuck Lidell

Jens Pulver

Urijah Faber

Tito Ortiz

Rashard Evans

Keith Jardine

Dan Henderson

Brandon Vera

Now Brock doesn't have major boxing or BJJ skills yet but he packs a damn good punch and he is physically overwhelming. There aint nobody who can match him when it comes to shooting. He is cat quick and so far whenever he has wanted to take someone down he has done so. Don't get me wrong the guy definitely isn't polished. But to me thats the scary part. He has beaten a legend in the game and another guy who has been a contender for years. He was dominating Frank Mir but then showed his inexperience by allowing Mir to get him in a leg lock. But anybody watching that fight was fully expecting him to knock Mir out seconds before he got submitted. Just imagine what happens when Brock gets more striking technique down. I can tell you this much, Frank Mir won't want to fight the guy again any time soon. To me Noguiera would be way too small to fight Brock if he beats Mir.

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Bruce — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:15:39 -0000

Of course they can be bat shit crazy. And the percentage of bat shit crazy people in fighting is probably higher than in other sports. But that doesn't make bat shit crazy people good fighters. The reason Silva is who he is, and where he is...is first and foremost because of his cool. No one is cooler than this dude in the ring, he doesn't take unneccessary shots, he doesn't stray from the gameplan. That's why he's great. And his physiology probably plays a part to, long hands, long legs...there's a reason muay thai is called "the eight ways of death"...anyway...brock, matt hughes and the rest of the pure-bread wrestlers (i call them pure-bread, because i've never seen a wrestler stray away from his background enough to be considered an MMA-fighter)...they're basically wrestlers, who throw punches...and learn an armbar or two. They don't experiment with grappling as much as the Shamrocks or maybe Rutten. But that's their flaw...put them on their backs, and they will lose. This is almost a rule, any fighter with a wrestlers instincts, will eventually sucumb when faced with an opponent who can put him on his back, an keep him there...brock, well, he's a beast...but pound for pound...he's not even half the fighter that Couture is. He should be pushing ads for Lucky Strike. throwing half a punch doesn't make you a fighter...btw. that punch didn't even qualify as dirty boxing...he can't bang with Silva, he can't grapple with Mir...he'll throw his 260 pound frame at you for plus 4 rounds...but a fighter...naw man...

eeeh...i remember Gonzaga testing his chin and almost getting there...i'm telling you, brock is good for the ad-revenue, bad for fighting. He'll break the first BJJ fighter he faces...ok, sorry, the second one!

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Jake de Grazia — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:58:06 -0000

Awesome story. Mixed martial arts is a fascinating world. For another brilliant MMA journalism project, watch The Smashing Machine. It's the story of Mark Kerr, apparently one of the most dominating fighters ever. Incredibly compelling character. And a beautifully told story.

Re: Read this story...

sgwhiteinfla — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:38:45 -0000

Wallyz

I had TOTALLY missed that! I just read some online accounts of the fight and I guess it wasn't hyped up much if at all because nobody thought Faber would lose. It also seemes like Brown took a beating even though he won. Did you see the fight and if so did Brown dominate or was it a flash stoppage? The one thing about the UFC is nobody wins every fight. Even Anderson Silva whom I would say is the closest thing to unbeatable in the sport has lost in the past. Thanks for correcting me on that but I still would say Faber is one of the top 3 featherweights in the world on any given night. They HAD to bring in Jens Pulver from the UFC to fight him before his last fight because the WEC truly didn't have anybody people thought could beat him. I have seen Brown maybe once and based on that particular peformance I wouldn't have thought twice about betting against him if he fought Faber. Imma try to find a youtube clip.

BTW I disagree with the generalization about why the guys fight. If you look at their resume's, most of the guys in MMA are former all american wrestlers in college. And wrestling in college is about as exciting as watching paint dry for most folks. Its easy to say they are in it because of blood lust or mental defect AFTER they become UFC fighters but I don't think thats true. I think most of them get their mental defects after they get some elbows crashed in their grill over and over again. But then again who wouldn't?

Bruce

Average joe sixpacks can also be bat sh!t crazy. Take for example "Joe the Plumber". And of those guys I would say maybe Anderson Silva still has the faculties that he came into the sport with. I love Couture but over the years I think the beatings he has endured have taken a toll on him. GSP himself was claiming that he was having some problems with depression or something when he lost to Matt Sera in their first fight. Silva's fighting style has largely kept him from sustaining a lot of beatings but eventually if he keeps fighting he will take some of those bad beatings too and that is going to take something out of him. Think about it this way, people always talk about how football players and boxers will be punch drunk later in life, well the MMA fighters have less protection than football players or boxers. Now some guys come in with more marbles than others do but in the end I believe they are all gonna lose some

I actually am the reverse of you. I hate Brock Lesner the guy because he comes off to me like he is "owed" something. But in the ring, even though I was skeptical at first, the guy is a straight beast. I don't know why you say he is just a wrestler, did you see him clean Couture's clock in this last fight? He dropped Couture like a sack of potatoes and nobody has ever handled him that way, NOBODY!

Re: Read this story...

Bruce — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 06:54:24 -0000

@T...no it's not...scripting error...

i seriously was contemplating subscribing...although i don't fall into the effete east coast snob category!

Regarding MMA...it's the evolution of martial arts...karate kyukushin was developed a certain kind of violence suffered by pesants at the hands of their lords in ancient Japan...same with capoeria and now BJJ and MMA...when fighting styles converge you end up with a lot of ruling differences and styles that need to be merged sometimes the organizations miss (thus eye-gouging and groin-pulling was legal in UFC 1)

@Wallyz...

i dont think Anderson Silva falls into the category of mental trauma...he seems to be fighting for glory and more puristic reasons. The fact that his base fighting style is a very purified form of muay-thai makes it seem even more so! If u like BJJ you should seriously look at a cat like Damian Maia. Abu-Dhabi Champ in BJJ and probably the illest grappler i've ever seen. He reminds me alot of the Gracies although he's not from that particular school.

@sgwhiteinfla

GSP

Randy Couture

Anderson Silva

3 average "joe six-pack" dudes or in Silva's case "Joao Capriña"...who love to fight...i don't agree with the beastification of MMA and fighting. I can understand it from a marketing standpoint, it's fun and the fighters can get paid. And i do agree that some fighters are pure beasts (Mark Coleman, Brock etc). But the vast majority of fighters are actually average guys like the three i just mentioned.

And btw...i hate Brock Lesnar, not because of his background, but because of his fighting style. A pure-bread wrestler...never liked the style...either one of Mir and Nogueira have more than a decent chance of beating him. His biggest flaw is still that he is a wrestler...

Re: Read this story...

toxic — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:18:45 -0000

Freaktown... its a sport. The other guy isn't exactly surprised he's in a fight, so acting like a professional match is a street brawl is silly. It makes as much sense to evoke Jesus for a mixed martial arts fight as it does for any other sport, which may not be saying a lot. You may not like the sport, and that's fine. But its not human cockfighting; they are highly trained professionals who are mixing several different thousand year old martial art traditions into a seamless whole, with referees who are very careful to protect the fighters from unnecessary harm.

P.S. There is no gouging in the UFC. Eye gouges got outlawed a decade ago.

Plenty of beating and bending though.

And the woman had a miscarriage about a month after the incident. I'm not a obstetrician but that far out it's probably a safe bet it wasn't really connected.

Also, WEC and the UFC are owned by the same company. WEC specializes in the lighter fighters. The UFC doesn't have a featherweight division, Urijah would have to move up to lightweight. Which they probably won't do, since Urijah is the WECs main draw.

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BrianSierk — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:07:53 -0000

Ran out of people to fight Faber, Hmm, last guy seemed to do pretty well. Guy named Mike Brown, the Current WEC Featherweight title holder?

The guys I love to see fight are Miguel Torres (WEC) Anderson Silva (UFC) and Brock Lesnar(UFC formerly WWE)

The Light Heavy division has a lot of good fighters in it, but Griffin seems to always have an edge with the Judges. I like him, but he seems to be helped by Dana White, because White thinks he is good as the face of the UFC.

MMA is an interesting sport because the fighters are in it for very primal, inner reasons. Some of that is childhood trauma, some of it is mental/ emotional instability. If my kidneys still worked, I would be in the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school down the road.

Re: Read this story...

sgwhiteinfla — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 18:15:08 -0000

The article was all that and I have been waiting to hear about what really happened when Rampage got arrested. This is the first I heard of any kind of explanation about it. I notice there wasn't anything in the article about the lady who might have lost her baby from being in a wreck with Rampage either. I guess some stuff was probably off limits to ask questions about. Still I will admit that I thought Rampage won the fight but it could have definitely gone either way. The one thing that needs to change about MMA is the scoring system because right now its not really defined well.

I love Rampage because he is from my hometown of Memphis and he is a BEAST in the Octagon, but I don't think you can pick three people in the UFC who are in their right mind. The kind of sh!t they go through is just ridiculous and I am not even talking about the actual fight. Just the training these guys do would make most folks cry. I have huge respect for what they do though because it takes a lot of skill and heart AND you don't get the kind of decisions like you get in Boxing where everybody knows the fix was in.

Coates, do you know what made the Samuels guy write the profile on Rampage and do you know if he will be doing more work on the UFC? There is a cat named Urijah Faber in a smaller company called the WEC and that cat is the next big thing in MMA. He is already the champion there but they have run out of people to fight him. So I don't know if maybe the WEC and UFC will do a cross promotion and have him fight the UFC champion at his weight class or what but the guy has that "it" factor. David Samuels should consider doing a piece on him if he is going to do more MMA stuff for reals.