The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Racism Against White People

Re: Racism Against White People

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Re: Racism Against White People

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Re: Racism Against White People

Carrington — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:05:33 -0000

Of course much is explained about our politics by our modern reluctance to admit of original sin.

Re: Racism Against White People

adamnvillani — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:40:24 -0000

Can someone link to one of these right-wingers criticizing Buchanan for her insane and blatantly hypocritical stance? It might restore my faith in humanity.

Re: Racism Against White People

Deborah — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:15:08 -0000

Thank you. And I'm a great fan of your namesake--excellent books. (Assuming that's a Stephen Maturin Jack Aubrey reference.)

Re: Racism Against White People

RL — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:54:38 -0000

Thanks LCrawfty. Who woulda thunk it? Karen O now on my list of great Polish Americans. Sort of (I don't mean sort of great, I mean sort of Polish American -- she's like Polish-Korean and grew up in Korea and now I guess is an American and I don't know if we have a place in our racial politics for that). But I'll gladly accept her.

I had no idea.

Re: Racism Against White People

Aubrey Maturin — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:24:00 -0000

Well put.

I'm going to show Epstein the same empathy I want Bay Buchanan to show youthful offenders who emerge from Rikers Island after serving time for assault. Some of those young men have childhood traumas and substance abuse problems that would absolutely shred her heart if she listened as well as she listened to Marcus during his psychological ordeals. They are no less complicated and troubled. And they deserve a second chance as much as Epstein. But I won't be accused of hypocrisy by Ms. Buchanan.

Re: Racism Against White People

RL — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:00:40 -0000

I third.

And when do we have an "I'm so white...." contest on the Open Thread at Noon?

Re: Racism Against White People

Deborah — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:40:46 -0000

I second IrishPirate as spokesperson.

I recently watched Star Wars V and VI with my kids, and was too envious to mildly stay stuck with that country singer guy.

Re: Racism Against White People

irishpirate — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:50:59 -0000

I speak for all white people, I just elected myself spokesman, after I won all the votes including the deceased........I am from Chicago after all.

Epstein is an asshole. He yells racial epithets and attacks a woman? He is not some tragic flawed genius just waiting for the Buchanans to save him from himself.

Internet lynching?

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Don't the Buchanans have any elderly nazis to defend?

I'm so white that if I stand under a bright street lamp at night I can't even be seen, but these "excuses" that are being made for Epstein are olympian in the history of excuse making.

Last week the off duty Chicago cop who attempted to beat the hell out of the small female bartender was tried and found guilty. The video was a YOUTUBE hit.

His attorney tried to make the argument that the cop, Anthony Abbate, was merely defending himself from that terror of a tiny woman.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/06/abbate-acquitted-on-2-lesser-charges.html

SHEEEEEEEEEEET.

Bullshit, is bullshit, is bullshit.

Re: Racism Against White People

Deborah — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:39:13 -0000

As LCrawfty notes, people don't usually say things they don't believe when drunk or high; they say things they have the sense to self-edit when sober. And Mr. Epstein apparently was posting some rather dicey things on the internet at other times.

As noted upthread, his law school acceptance was probably rescinded for committing felony assault and not mentioning it; breaking the law (outside of traffic tickets) is usually a nonstarter for law school entrance, as are any lies on the application. This is a consequence that falls on a thousand other bright young things who let a moment of stupidity crush their future careers; he is not so special and unique.

If Bay Buchanon were just a woman running, say, an economic thinktank, then her compassion toward her former protege might be unremarkable. People would no doubt laugh at the caricature she represents of leftist views of crime--all about the circumstances for the poor poor assaulter, no mention of the victim, the crime described in such a way that the physical assault is elided, and in general a demand that you understand this person, his life, his troubles, and then do not judge him.

But BB is not that; no one familiar with her role in the right's culture wars would characterize her position on crime as one of overwhelming empathy for the sad, sad thing to befall the poor criminal in question. She is being called to account for (a) her use of the term "lynching," comically inappropriate and disparaging to 1000s of people for whom lynching meant death; (b) her flaming hypocrisy, in that the care and understanding she demands for her employee is not what she has seen as appropriate for others. Does this show an ounce of compassion in her heart? Sure. Does it show an ounce of self-awareness, or recognition of irony? No.

Re: Racism Against White People

Jingo Killah — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:34:10 -0000

You just made my eyes light up. In this ongoing rhetorical war, one of the techniques is to steal from the opponent's rhetoric, as has been mentioned frequently in this post and on this site. You are correct to say that "Playing the race card" is now in our hand. Glory be! I'd love to see Pat B sputter out an incoherent response to an accusation of "playing the race card". Thank you for that insight.

Re: Racism Against White People

LCrawfty — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:15:39 -0000

I was trying to make the point that there are millions of addicts in this country (and I`m not even convinced Epstein was a true alcoholic) but very few of them ever get involved in racial attacks in their darkest moments if they are not already racist individuals. They may steal from family, hit people with their cars, or prostitute themselves, but it doesn't seem to often come to racial violence so easily. I`m not surprised to hear that Bay Buchanan took the time to help someone who represents her business interests and public image. Where is Marc Epstein on the media circuit apologizing to his victim if he is so hurt and troubled by all of this?

Re: Racism Against White People

PBomb — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:47:02 -0000

This is my first time posting on this site. I have always enjoyed reading your posts Ta-Nehisi.

As for Bay Buchanan and her brother, they systematically play the race card. It's the same thing that they accuse blacks of doing. Pat Buchanan just compared the plight of the white man to that of blacks in the 60's during Jim Crow. It is just so amazing how out of touch they are both are collectively.

Bigots typically are out of touch with the real world. They live in their own bubble, and manufacture their reality as they fit, because somewhere, somebody of another race has did some harm to them or taken advantage of the system that has failed them. It must suck to live that way.

Re: Racism Against White People

Aubrey Maturin — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:26:41 -0000

When drunk and/or high, the most loving person in the world can get pretty ugly. I think Epstein will pay the price for his crime, as he absolutely should. And his acceptance to UVA Law has been rescinded, so his future is definitely less bright.

He just seems awfully young and troubled to me. And I was surprised to read that Bay Buchanan took so much time and care to help someone who wasn't even flesh and blood. I admire her for that. I know we lose sight of the victim here with all of this focus on the violent perpetrator; I'm simply noting that there was pain and heartbreak in the young guy that spilled out in violence but that Bay Buchanan tried to help him keep it together.

Re: Racism Against White People

LCrawfty — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:20:29 -0000

Hey, as soon as Karen O starts karate chopping black women on the street and using the N word she will go right back to white in my book.

Re: Racism Against White People

FOARP — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:13:12 -0000

Here's an interesting insight into the mind of the average racist - Channel 4 ran a revealing survey on the people who voted for the British National Party in the European elections this past week, their findings?

* When asked whether they were "confident that my family will have the opportunities to prosper in the years ahead", only 19% answered yes, compared to a ~50% national average

* "Yet the household income of the typical BNP voter (£27,000 a year) is only slightly below the national median (£29,000)"

* "They were also more working-class. In the country at large, professional workers outnumber manual workers by 20 per cent to 18 per cent. Among BNP voters the pattern is very different: 36 per cent manual workers, 11 per cent professionals."

* "We also find that most BNP voters do NOT subscribe to what might be described as "normal racist views". Just 44 per cent agreed with the party in rejecting the view that non-white citizens are just as British as white citizens."

* "Yet, depending on how the term "racist" is precisely defined, our survey suggests that the label applies to only around a half of BNP voters. On their own, these votes would not have been enough to give the BNP either of the seats they won last night."

* "The average British voter is more likely to think that discrimination afflicts white people than Muslim or non-white people. And only seven per cent of the public think white people benefit from unfair advantages, while more than one in three think Muslim and non-white people receive unfair help."

* "perhaps the most startling finding came when we tested anecdotal reports that many BNP voters were old Labour sympathisers who felt that the party no longer speaks up for them. It turns out to be true. As many as 59 per cent of BNP voters think that Labour "used to care about the concerns of people like me but doesn’t nowadays"."

That is to say, the majority of people who at least vote racist even if they are unwilling to express racist views believe that it is they who are the victims, even though in financial terms they are clearly not. The majority of them are much more fearful about the future than the average person. Most of them identified with the traditional left but are now disenchanted with them, as they no longer feel that they serve their interests.

I would be inclined to dismiss these people as ignorant and dishonest even to themselves, but the fact that nearly one million people voted for the BNP - that's about 1/60th of the British population, and 1/30th of those who voted (European elections have a traditionally low turn-out). I wouldn't at all be surprised in Buchanan supporters showed similar metrics.

Re: Racism Against White People

LCrawfty — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:04:10 -0000

Bay Buchanan is trying to do damage control because she, her brother, and Tancredo have enough of a history of looking like bigots in the media. He's not a caricature? Who was calling him a caricature? He was being called what he is, a violent bigot who uses depression and alcoholism as an excuse for his criminal actions. Could we do a little poll of people in rehab, see who at thier worst ever did anything like this? I`ve seen my fair share of "Intervention" episodes and in all that insanity I don't think any of the participants attacked a stranger on the basis of their race.

Re: Racism Against White People

RL — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:00:08 -0000

Fine. He's a complicated, troubled kid who should go to jail for assault.

Given Ms. Buchanan's interest in the public weal, I am sure she would agree that such a crime should not be permitted to go unpunished.

Re: Racism Against White People

Aubrey Maturin — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:44:09 -0000

Bay Buchanan is a kind hearted woman for taking personal interest in the well-being of Marcus Epstein. According to her account, Epstein had not been in her life very long before he sought her help during a desperate bout with despair. She was on his team, helping him out of depression. She's defending him now because she understands that he is not a caricature, but a complicated, troubled kid.

Re: Racism Against White People

LCrawfty — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:13:40 -0000

Is he the moderator of a group "Karate Chops+The N Word=Awesome" and "Bay Buchanan, The Bay is short for Bay-bee Got it Going On"?, or is he just a fan of Whitewashing your Criminal Record?

Re: Racism Against White People

whilome — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:44:54 -0000

Check out his facebook page. Along with him boasting about his now-revoked acceptance to UVa Law and dissing Ethiopian art as "a dog standing on its hind legs", he lists his ethnicity as "white".

Re: Racism Against White People

RL — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:40:04 -0000

Centuries ago, a Mongol dipped his wick into my family's genetic pool. My Polish immigrant grandmother looked way more Asian than Epstein does. Says white on her immigration papers.

But we can debate a person's looks interminably. What you say about racism is true. Comes in all colors. Your point is better made without the left-field comparison to Barack Obama's genetic heritage. In part because referring to him as "half-white" is culturally counter-factual. In America, in every context, anyone who looks like the President is a black man. That's where we live.

Re: Racism Against White People

lizkdc — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:33:50 -0000

I steeled myself and read the article, because lord knows the Internet is prone to outbursts of one-sided vitriol. OK, this guy was a depressed alcoholic who Ms. Buchanan also believed was talented, full of potential

I was still shocked to find that in her article there is not a single word, not a phrase, about the woman who was beaten.

You know, the possibility that she is a human being of worth, "talented!" even (the upper class word for "magic!"), who didn't deserve to be assaulted in the street both physically and with racial slurs.

You'd think, from Buchanan's article, that Epstein smashed up a car, or similar. A "mess"? Really? A "mess," in my book is getting drunk and doing something embarassing in public.

Beating a woman on a public street while shouting "n*gger" would be a "crime." Maybe Bay could "pause to ask" what it might feel like to get that fist in the face. If it were a person who mattered.

Damn, I am not helping the situation. I started out trying to see the other side, but that piece made me more angry.

Re: Racism Against White People

RL — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:13:48 -0000

Deborah. Circling all the way to William Zantzinger, mentioned in the first post of this thread. He was jailed 6 months for manslaughter. But later in his life received a sentence of 18 months for deceptive trade practices. American jurisprudence.