The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Putting Mos Def In Context

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Azer Bulbulubulbul — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 08:00:14 -0000

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Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Kinowolf — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:54:46 -0000

We are on teams. We always have been on teams. No amount of well-meaning, "things shouldn't be that way," is going to change it. Just accept it, tend to your people, and move forward in solidarity. That goes for white folks, as well as black folks and any other community. When my fellow Dominican-Americans step out of line, I want to be the first at the discussion table with them hashing out our issues.

Check out the work of Tim Wise, an anti-racist activist. His work isn't about saying "white people did bad things, let's pretend race doesn't exist." It's about engaging his community on issues of race. It's about white people talking to white people about how and why specific American racial ideology came about historically (hint: $$$), and thinking about how to move forward and improve as a community. Pretending you're not responsible for what your co-ethnics or members of your race do doesn't help anybody but yourself. See something, say something. Move forward together.

The thing that makes hip-hop fans upset when Mos does something like this is that he isn't "some ignorant rapper." In fact that dismissal is pretty lame and ignores that there are plenty of rappers who engage in thoughtful discussion. Mos is, most of the time, one of them. In fact, in the 90s he seemed like a shining example of an intelligent activist MC. In the last decade, he's slipped into these reactionary and nihilistic, as TNC puts it, positions that make it harder to look up to him and undermines the cause of responsible and conscious hip-hop. Yes, Mos is only one man, and there are guys out there I'd rather have speaking for hip-hop (Jay Smooth), but Mos has the highest profile in the "conscious" community. So when TNC says he would rather see him chastised by Cornel West, he's saying that he would like to elevate the discourse internally in the hip-hop community, and internally in the black community (vis-a-vis West), before releasing Mos out to debate Hitchens, who doesn't really come to the table with a respect for either.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

combat efficiency - we are win — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 21:08:06 -0000

Dear people.

The T.V., and producers are in the business of making money. They provide what people want, ENTERTAINMENT. Keith Olbermann is just as, if not more retarded than Hannity or O'Reilly who honestly should be stricken from the air...but people watch them and they make money.

1) Please stop buying into glorified telepoliticigists.

2) Please stop taking this seriously.

3) Please stop trying to defend people by virtue of anything.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

rist — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:50:15 -0000

I think his appearance should be put into more context before jumping all over him.

Mos Def was the only man at the table that was willing to admit the hypocrisy involved in our nuclear policy. That the US can have nukes and other nations cannot impedes our ability to conduct diplomatic relations honestly and productively. He called for voluntary disarmament. Of the four at the table, he was the only one that was even capable of suggesting ways in which we might be able to develop a productive relationship with the Islamic world.

That he was quickly dismissed as a loon is not surprising, but it is important to understand what kind of loon. If he was playing the fool, it was the fool that speaks truths others refuse to admit.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

northernobserver — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 22:40:13 -0000

I didn't think of FOTRD comment as being "ignorant".

I thought he might be holding back and wanted to give him a chance to expand his idea.

I'm sorry but it does amaze me that someone with familial links through marriage to Egypt, the country that gave birth to the Ikhwanul Muslimeen, Hassan el Bana, and Sayyed Qutb doesn't have more to say on this topic either as a M brotherhood supporter, neutral bystander or opponent.

Once you know they exist and what they believe you tend to have an opinion about them.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Tonya — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:20:57 -0000

Northern,

I find it fascinating how rude you just sounded. But I guess people who judge people on their 'ignorance' can't afford to give any body a free pass.

..I apologize...that was rude too.

Anyway..I am in no way thinking that I think FanoftheRadio's opinion as ignorant. Hardly. I am of the opinion that Americans for some reason are really apt to believe our news as gospel instead of being open to all of the information that is out there as well. For someone who is so bent on criticizing Mos for not trusting all info given to him, why is it so hard to be open-minded about getting information from someone who might have better knowledge than we do due to first hand experience?

Fan..I admit, I don't know enough about this subject to agree or disagree with what you say, but I appreciate you taking the time to post and sharing your opinion with us.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Tonya — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:55:29 -0000

First I would like to point out that TNC felt embarrassed for Mos Def for the hip-hop generation. I believe he pointed that out in one of the thread's responses.

Second, TNC may have been joking, but I think on some level his feelings might have been real. As Daughter pointed out Blacks are constantly made to answer for each other, not just by society, but also by ourselves as well.

It's a confusing country that we live in. Everyone wants America to be this huge melting pot- yet as soon as something goes wrong its: "Why can't blacks do this. Why can't blacks do that. The Chinese are this way..why can't Hispanics and Blacks be the same?"

And at the same time there is this inner battle within the African American community: "We have to help each other..we can't be seen as ignorant in front of whites..don't air the dirty laundry..etc."

The melting pot question should be: "Why can't American's help each other?"

.. it should be, but that's not reality, now is it? Maybe some day.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

gtiness — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:12:23 -0000

Wow, at least you're not consistently dragging the atlantic through your racial, mud-stained lenses.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

northernobserver — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:52:54 -0000

Hummmmmmmm,

Bin Laden may or may not be dead but that doesn't change much; at this point he is personally besides the point. The larger Salafist movement he belongs (or belonged) to and the various imams around the world who adhere to and preach this virulent stream of "Koran based religion" (to call it Islam is practically an insult to Islam itself) is very real, has millions of adherents world wide and a large body of people who take a neutral position towards their social, political and military objectives and activities.

Mos came off as ignorant because under the street wisdom of not trusting "the man" he automatically gave the Salafists a moral free pass. That's why Rushdie and Hitchen's had a fit. Mos wasn't even aware of his own moral blindness. It was cringe worthy.

I find it fascinating given your wife's background that you don't have a more complicated take on this. Mos' view was ok? Really?

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

hilts — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:31:15 -0000

All of the people I listed make statements reflecting various combinations of ignorance, insanity, and hate-mongering.

I didn't mean to imply that Beck, Van Susteren, etc use rhetoric reflecting all 3 things all of the time.

Greta Van Susteren isn't a hate monger, she's just a garden variety horse's rear-end.

Van Susteren is incredibly dishonest and unprofessional for not disclosing the fact that her husband has been advising Sarah Palin while she has conducted countless suck-up interviews with the prom queen governor.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Juba — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:28:02 -0000

Not slap down, but maybe challenge him to step his game up. And not Blacks in general, but an erudite elder like a Cornell West, who is friendly enough with the hip-hop generation to do records with them.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Juba — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:25:23 -0000

Sorry this is in response to FanOfTheRadio, dunno why I replied here.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Juba — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:23:15 -0000

I didnt read "bashing" in Coates' comments. Seems like he was pretty conflicted about Mos and about the JR Rogers / Dr. Ben school of Afrocentric, alt-academic school of Af. Am scholarship: recognizing their importance in his own growth, but their own limits re: rigorous scholarship and debate.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

DaveinHackensack — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:14:02 -0000

"Hate-mongering"? Do you have examples of, say, Greta Van Susteren's hate-mongering? Or are you pulling this out of your hat, like Dan W's claim above that Glenn Beck was a bigot.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

hilts — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:03:42 -0000

Mos Def was correct to note that the federal govt has ignored and neglected its responsibilty towards New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina.

Def was correct to point out that many times law enforcement has abused its authority by harrassing and persecuting African American activists.

Def is dead wrong and incredibly irresponsible to dismiss the genuine threat posed by Al Qaeda.

Glenn Beck is a malignant media carnogen and a raging maniac who should be placed in a straitjacket and given electro-shock therapy.

I condemn Mos Def's ignorance about Al Qaeda and I condemn Glenn Beck's ignorance about everything.

I condemn Glenn Beck not as a white person, but as a human being.

I also condemn the ignorance, insanity, and hate-mongering of Michelle Bachman, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Joe the Pumber Wurtzelbacher, Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Reynolds, Joe Scarborough, and Greta Van Susteren.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Lee — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:16:52 -0000

I know it's a joke, but in the context of the post yesterday where TNC seemed somewhat personally embarrassed by Mos Def, it's not ALL a joke. I'd say the correct response to the people who think Obama should have to answer for Louis Farrakhan is to point out that that makes no sense whatsoever, NOT asking Farrakhan to shape up and stop embarrassing all black people. The latter just buys into a racist fallacy. I know TNC doesn't really think all white people are responsible for Glen Beck's BS. In the same vein, I don't think all black people are responsible for Mos Def's BS, so I think TNC's reaction (some personal embarrassment/ blaming Cornell West for not setting Mos Def straight) ought to be explained a little, at a minimum.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Fighting Words — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:56:15 -0000

Just to add one minor point. The Mercury Dime was created in 1916, which was a few years BEFORE Mussolini's Fascist Party in Italy (which was created in the aftermath of WWI).

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Daughter — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:49:08 -0000

I think TNC is making a tongue-in-cheek point. The fact is, black people are asked to answer for other black people all the time, in a way that white people aren't. Think of Obama being asked to "renounce and reject" Farrakhan or to answer for something Harry Belafonte said.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Somali Canuck — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:38:53 -0000

As an african i was insulted to see that the new face of Fascism in America is Ben Bernake! Ben Bernake?? WTF?? I would never goosestep behimng him. I want Barack Hussein Obama as the face and leader of the new fascism, that would be someone i would gladly pimp-walk-goosesetp behind, and i won't use a brown shirt, but a leopard print shirt with the green,black and red!

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

From Canada — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:38:53 -0000

In TNC's original post he mentioned Cornel West's reluctance to correct Mos Def's assertions on about 9/11, and that people are generally hesitant to challenge the conspiracies that are often present in the conscious community.

TNC then follows up with this post highlighting the fact that there are also whites that say crazy things too. Which is true. However, there is no reluctance on the part of people like Stewart, Colbert, and Letterman to thoroughly mock people like Beck, Hannity, O'reilly, and Rep. Bachmann. Contrast this West's handling of Mos Def's statements. He refused to challenge his beliefs.

I think that many black academics, and some members of the black middle class are reluctant to criticise and confront the "conscious community" and "ghetto philosophers" for fear of coming off as Buppies who are out of touch, and condescending towards poorer blacks who are less educated.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

J. Howard Rosier — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:27:24 -0000

I had never seen Glen Beck before but now that I have I am not impressed. Except with his usage of props, of course.

What gets lost in this, as with the MSNBC rantings of Olberman and Mathews, is that this is how people expect to get their news. Props, shouting, bias disguised as fairness(Beck trying to co-opt liberals in his hysteria is a howler even by Fox News standards). Meanwhile, CNN--sans Lou Dobbs--is easily the fairest of the cable news stations. But it's boring. I live in Chicago, where both major newspapers are in bankruptcy, and however we feel about print medias myriad mistakes, we are going to be in a scary place if they end up gone simply because of the alternatives.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

OrchidBlooms — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:24:49 -0000

White males do make up the majority of serial killers. BTK, Gacy, Son of Sam, Manson ....

Just so ya know .... :)

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Somali Canuck — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:23:09 -0000

Naaa! We keep Michael Steele, he a crazy rapper, that happens to be chairman of the GOP! I don't know how he did it! Glenn Beck is just loony!I am gonna give a hug to every white people i know and meet, they must be terribly embarassed and ashamed about what's happening right now.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

FanoftheRadioDept — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:51:05 -0000

First time poster, but I've been reading your blog for a few months.

I have watched the full segment with Mos Def on Bill Maher and I have read the comments here and in the previous post, yet I still do not understand these allegations of paranoia on Mos Def's part. Nor do I understand the glee with which you lot continue to bash him.

Perhaps his delivery could have been a bit more eloquent (take the bass out?), but I found the content to be of considerable merit as a Black American who was born and reared in the South, later educated in the United Kingdom, married to an Egyptian and exceedingly well-traveled. I started out rooted in the typical southern black experience, was transplanted to a culture of class warfare in the UK where my experience as an African American paled in comparison to what it meant as a black foreigner living in Oxford, to a Christian married to an Arab Muslim in the post-9/11 world.

Re: Bin Laden. Over the years, there have been several credible reports that he is in fact dead. And if he is not dead, then one would need to consider his waning influence in the Middle East. Bin Laden has never had a more influential position than that of the neo-conservative's puppet. It is without question that he has very little influence in the Arab world (due in no small part to the fact that most Arabs are convinced that he is dead). I am not suggesting that there aren't any rogue factions out there (who just happen to be Islamists) who pose a danger to America, but they are hardly lurking around the corner.

I support Mos Def's overall message, America needs to look inward and sort itself, thus leaving the Arab world in peace.

Re: Putting Mos Def In Context

Lee — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:37:18 -0000

I agree that the whole group embarrassment thing is a little troubling. I get the joke, too, but the whole concept that black people or white people or whoever are on "teams" of some kind and one member of the "team" is somehow representative of everybody does not sit well with me.

I'm more OK with the idea of one democrat being embarrassed by the conduct of another person who identifies themselves as a democrat, or a southern baptist being embarrassed by another self-identified southern baptist. Those things are group identities that people have chosen to assume. I graduated from the same college as Pat Robertson, for example, and I'm not super keen on having people think of me as the product of the same proud educational tradition that produces goons like him. But I CHOSE that school, and arguably that choice could be read to say something about me. But the concept that I should be embarrassed by say, Paris Hilton, with whom I have absolutely nothing in common other than skin and hair color, because she's somehow a stand-in for us interchangeable, generic blond white chicks everywhere, or that TNC should be embarrassed by some ignorant rapper because he's representing "the race" on TV, smacks of some seriously crazy, early 20th century, Lothrop Stoddard crap racism to me.