The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Oscar Grant

Re: Oscar Grant

mark babayaw — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:11:16 -0000

awright

this was a demonic ritual murder just like biggie

and tupac yusuf hawkins and so many others

Sean Bell

just like the 1,452 Black Afrikan children are KILLED !!!! each day!!!!!!! by the heinous act of

ABORTION!!!

visit http://www.blackgenocide.org

in amerikkka alone!!

peace to those worthy of it

this was a premeditated murder

like the rest of OUR KILLINGS BY POLICE!!

I support reparations repatriation

to stop these GENOCIDAL killings

we are still en BONDAGE benot fooled

Black man/woman/child you are GODS

THE whites are DEVILS and the rest are your enemy!\\f

fire burn

mark

babayaw

Re: Oscar Grant

Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:12 -0000

I live in Philadelphia, PA and the whole Oscar Grant

incident has been suppressed by the news media. When i called and questioned the media, i was told it was a local incident. So you"re talking about a city that"s 50% black that has no knowledge of this incident for the most part, unless they saw it on CNN. But Philadelphia news media basically doesn"t want this incident known.

Re: Oscar Grant

Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:18:42 -0000

I live in Philadelphia, PA and the whole Oscar Grant

incident has been suppressed by the news media. When i called and questioned the media, i was told it was a local incident. So you"re talking about a city that"s 50% black thathas no knowledge of this incident for the most part, unless they saw it on CNN. But Philadelphia news media basically doesn"t want this incident known.

Re: Oscar Grant

Barrie — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:02:03 -0000

This is fascinating discussion going on. Thank you for this wonderful forum.

Just wanted to let you all know about a relatively new documentary called REVOLUTION ’67 which looks at the riots in Newark, New Jersey in 1967. In that particular incident, it was also police brutality that ignited the anger of frustrated citizens. The film sheds light on the influences that let to the 500 examples of urban disturbance in U.S. cities during that decade. It is worth watching to parallel what has changed, what hasn't and what has gotten worse in the forty years since the urban unrest.

http://www.newsreel.org/nav/title.asp?tc=CN0203

Re: Oscar Grant

justiceforoscar — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:29:45 -0000

A new era has begun. Keep individual and groups of officer accountable for their actions by videorecording incidents and reporting to news agencies. Officers need to know their lives can be turned upsidedown along with the loss of their career if they abuse their policing power.

Re: Oscar Grant

get your facts straight — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:34:38 -0000

He was NOT in hand cuffs. But why let the facts get in the way of judging?

Re: Oscar Grant

justiceforoscar — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:53:35 -0000

Online organizing has been hampered. The local news station websites (KTVU for example)has disabled any blogging about the killing. If you search "Oscar Grant" online you see a confusing list of non-blogging websites. I have created a non-censored blog for anybody to leave opinions. The blog was created for the only purpose to express your opinions about the killing. Hopefully the blog is useful and gets lots of comments. Tell your family and friends about the blog. Let's organize our thoughts!

Go to: http://justiceforoscar.blogspot.com/

Re: Oscar Grant

sv — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:53:18 -0000

Thanks ECL. my newsletter? HA! You're lookin at it

Re: Oscar Grant

TW Andrews — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:11:29 -0000

It may be true that this would have never happened to a young white man, but the more I think about it, the more I see this as a story about over-armed, over-violent police than I do as a story about race.

The police should simply not be able to get away with execution of anyone. That officer should be in jail, pending review of the case and trial. That he isn't is an absolute outrage, and makes a mockery of police accountability. Unless the videos from the station CCTV cameras and all the videos from the phones which were confiscated show up as evidence in court, the officers who took them should be subject to discipline for attempting to cover up a crime.

Over the last 20 years (co-incident with the war on drugs) police forces (particularly urban ones) have become dangerously militarized. Witness the no-knock, wrong house drug raids that get people killed.

It wasn't that long ago that a SWAT team kicked in the door of the mayor (who is clearly white--which I only note to point out that this isn't just a problem in the black community, just more of one) of a city in Maryland.

This sort of shit has got to stop.

Re: Oscar Grant

TW Andrews — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:01:49 -0000

This sort of shit has got to stop.

Re: Oscar Grant

Peter Moskos — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:18:17 -0000

I hope all those schmucks yelling at the police from the train take a second to think about how they too contributed to this man's death.

Re: Oscar Grant

Chris — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:05:04 -0000

Normal police (are these BART cops full police?) are trained to shot to kill, and this single shot to the lower back (that bounced) seems weird to me. If he had really thought there was danger he should have/could have killed him right there with several shots.

Not that he deserves anything less than manslaughter.

Re: Oscar Grant

direwolfc — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:04:22 -0000

looks like a straight up execution at first glance. Thinking about it though, it seems accidental. i.e. he pulled the gun on the guy to intimidate him (which itself is illegal), and he accidently fired it in the process.

On many handguns, safeties are a complete joke. People watch movies and think its some switch that has to dramatically flipped before a gun is active. Many safeties are nothing more than increased pressure on the trigger for the first shot. Some handguns have a hair-trigger firing, in which the slightest movement will cause it to fire (once safety is off). If the officer switched off the safety on a hair-trigger prior to pulling it out (i.e. before the melee), its very easy to fire it accidentally. Police officers accidentally discharge their weapons all the time, which just goes to show how good safeties work in general.

Go to a gun range sometime and try out a few handguns - there's a wide range of safeties out there.

Also the 'thought the handgun was a taser' doesn't seem convincing. I haven't held that many tasers, but the ones I have held don't feel a whole lot like a handgun.

Re: Oscar Grant

nolabean — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:26:37 -0000

I'm sorry, but I'm angry! I'm tired and I'm angry. It seems that police officers can just kill us without rhyme or reason and we're all supposed to forgive, accept the court rullings, and move on like sheep. That officer killed a man. He is never coming back. He can't change it. He can't undue it.

When does it stop? I used to think that I could avoid coming into contact with rogue police officers that would just as soon shoot me than ask for my ID by gaining an education, further my career, and moving to a better neighborhood. I've done all of those things, but I still live in fear.

I'm a defense attorney in a rural area. I'm not from here. I make an effort to introduce myself to all of the officers. I've heard the stories. You wouldn't believe how many of them have crossed the line out of fear. Not that the suspect had done anything wrong, but they were Navajo, hispanic, or the rare black person walking around town. I can't wait to get out of here, but where can I go where I'm safe from a police officer? Now how sad is that question?

Re: Oscar Grant

JordanT — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:15:10 -0000

The advice my father gave me---to say 'yes sir' or 'no sir' to cops, don't raise your voice, and keep your hands where their eyes can see---might have saved this man's life.

From the video that looks like what he was doing. Before he was taken to the ground, he had his hands up above his head and was shaking his head. It seemed like he was telling the cops "I'm cooperating, please don't hurt me." He was then taken to the ground. The cop was right behind the guy with the Grant's behind his back, with another cop that had a knee on his neck and a third cop standing there watching. It's ridiculous to think that the cop had any reason to fear harm to his person at that point.

And yes, there are no released surveillance videos because the police were in full scale cover up mode. More than likely they'll "disallow" the amateur video evidence in court because it didn't follow a "proper chain of custody." The police will do everything to keep them out of court. The witnesses who come forward will be thoroughly discredited and the police will close ranks. The officers will testify that it looked like Grant was "reaching for his waistband" and the officer had every right to shoot him. It's a dangerous job and we should never second guess our police in a dangerous line of work. If you do, you hate the police and aren't an American.

Re: Oscar Grant

dragnet — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:21:10 -0000

This was just gutwrenching. Tore my fucking heart out. No way this happens if this kid is white. There is just no way that cop pulls heat if Grant is white. Just doesn't happen.

I even find myself feeling a little sorry for the cop. I really don't think he meant to kill Grant. But he most certainly did. The only just result is a manslaughter charge for this cop and prison time---hard time.

But there is a lesson in this for those kids as well. The rules just aren't the same for black kids as white kids when it comes to cops. Cops aren't going to give a black kids the same benefit of the doubt. They should, but this country isn't there yet. When things turn dicey, they're going to respond full force if you're black. The advice my father gave me---to say 'yes sir' or 'no sir' to cops, don't raise your voice, and keep your hands where their eyes can see---might have saved this man's life. In the street, they have the power. All you can do is get through it alive---and then fight them in court if they were wrong.

And props to those heads-up people who took these videos. Without this evidence, the dept. would have closed ranks by now and the killer would probably have been back out on the beat the next day. Now if there is any justice he'll be in the slammer for a minute.

Re: Oscar Grant

TW Andrews — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:43:14 -0000

Maybe this incident was racially motivated, but the reaction needn't be. Anyone, white, black, brown, yellow, whatever, can see that this cop should be in jail for murder. It doesn't matter much to me if it was an accident. When we give cops the right to carry guns, they have a higher responsibility to exercise safety and control. That tape is pretty cut-and-dried, no matter what color you are.

At the very least this guy ought to be tried for negligent homicide (though it looks more like murder from the video). I don't see how there was any excuse for him to go for his holster, whether taser or gun.

Riots are obviously an unproductive response, but it's pretty easy to see how they happened in response to something as egregious as this.

Re: Oscar Grant

Joel — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:27:25 -0000

Forget about the racial aspect for a minute;

Police officers are entrusted with protecting people's security. This is an egregious violation of that trust. This guy is obviously no better than a common sociopath, and he should be imprisoned - for life - like any other who'd commit this crime.

Re: Oscar Grant

ECL — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:15:39 -0000

SV, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. What are we up to now, 7thing your comment? More? Well, I Nth it, anyway.

Re: Oscar Grant

sgwhiteinfla — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:00:38 -0000

I shoot myself = suicide

I shoot somebody in the hand and they don't die = assault w/deadly weapon

Sorry just being an asshole for a minute.

Nothing to see here, keep it moving.

Re: Oscar Grant

D-Sel — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:24:55 -0000

@ thesnakr

Just to clarify some legal mumbo jumbo, all shootings are homicides. That doesn't necessarily mean it is a criminal homicide. The mental state referred to in the article is whether he had a "criminal intent," such as malice aforethought (murder), unreasonable belief in the need to defend himself (involuntary manslaughter), or reasonable belief in the need to defend himself (self-defense; not a crime).

I point this out only to clarify the DA's statement, not to suggest that this is anything other than a murder or manslaughter. It clearly looked criminal to me.

Re: Oscar Grant

thesnakr — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:18:39 -0000

Buried in a recent CNN online article:

"District Attorney Tom Orloff told CNN on Wednesday the incident is a "pretty clear" homicide and his office will focus primarily on Mehserle's mental state before the shooting."

Re: Oscar Grant

candace — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:46:00 -0000

The whole thing is utterly despicable, and frightening given the fact that the protest/riot happened about 10 blocks from my house.

Here's a first hand account of what happened last night, with pictures, in case anyone is interested. It seems like it started as a peaceful rally and another contingent took it out of control.

http://oaklandliving.wordpress.com/

Re: Oscar Grant

Harry — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:19:26 -0000

It's tough to see exactly what was happening through those cell phone cams. Why weren't there security cams in the BART station?

Re: Oscar Grant

sgwhiteinfla — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:46:54 -0000

Juba

Unfortunately no, trajedy struck here again. This time it was a high school kid who was the truth on the football field. It happened maybe 6 months ago and its still unsolved although a lot of people think they know who did it.