The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Of course then you read something like this...

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

carlos — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:54:33 -0000

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Re: Of course then you read something like this...

Justin — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:29:46 -0000

Oops, I see that I hallucinated you mentioning that Beaudrot was where you read the stats. Not sure I have an explanation of that, save the fact that he did comment on them elsewhere.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

Justin — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:17:30 -0000

I feel like if you're going to allege that there are these big statistical problems with comparing hundreds to 16, you need to say what problems you're talking about. There's a lot of BS stats running around, but it's not as if Beaudrot is a statistical illiterate.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

Brien Jackson — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:28:16 -0000

I thought Yglesias had the best riff on the Bowers/Kos/Sirota/Stoller/Etc. crowd when he sort of back handedly noted that their problem is they elevate questions of tactics and strategy to matters of principle. The obvious result of that is they wind up in fights with people who disagree with them about fairly trivial things and inevitably marginalize as a result. After all, if you're being called "Republican light" because you support cap-and-trade, universal healthcare gay marriage, EFCA, withdrawing from Iraq, and repealing the Bush tax cuts but don't think Congressional Democrats should put up a bill to do all of those things on Day 1, sooner or later you just get tired of those people because you can't have a "debate" with them any more than you can debate an Obama birth certificate truther.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

Brien Jackson — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:05:24 -0000

Even if we cede Bowers point, it seems to me that the relevant point here is that Obama's administration is full of mainstream establishment Democrats, and according to Bowers the congressional median is to the left of them. That's actually a very good thing, as Congress is much more central to domestic policy and a more progressive Congress is much more important than a progressive President.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

dan — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:10:41 -0000

Can someone tell me what makes Stoller and Bowers such leftists? What policy proposals do they have that are so remarkably "progressive" as compared to those of Obama, or those of the DLC?

If these two actually did attack people as "ideologically centrist because they are voting" -- that is, because they support the basic structure of our electoral democracy -- then I'd at least give them credit for being meaningfully left of the conventional terms of discussion. But they just aren't, and they are a bit of a joke when compared to actual leftists in say, Greece, Italy, Nicaragua, Mexico, etc., that is, most other democracies.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

Peter — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:25:12 -0000

He says that 8 of 18 is 50%. This is...not true. It is 44%. So, 38% of the House is conservative democrats, and 44% of the cabinet is. The variability factor here is one cabinet secretary.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

ners — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:18:33 -0000

Everyone has heard of the Blue Dogs, CBC, and Progressive Caucus. But the New Democratic Coalition? Huh? The DLC spells w-a-c-k-n-e-s-s.

One of the most surprising thing to me working on the Hill was all the progressive, cool, and radical members of Congress hidden away in random corners that we never hear about. Earl Blumenauer and his bike caucus? Danny Davis with a Black Power flag in his office? Lynn Woolsey holdin' it down for the welfare moms? Mike Honda on the trilingual immigrant-rights tip? Don't believe the hype there are no fresh people in Congress. They're just outnumbered.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

nctodc — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:27:57 -0000

It's worth considering if folks are really as ideologically centrist as their voting records suggest or if they're ideologically centrist because they are voting.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

DougEMI — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:27:28 -0000

These guys use DLC like McCarthy used "commie". Stoller even called Blago DLC after the scandal broke, though a few commenters called him out on it.

They do think they are at war with the DLC and other centrists. Kos, in a moment of extreme egotism, once pronounced that he was going to finish them off once and for all.

I have to wonder if some of these guys thought that Dems in power would bring them more relevance. Pelosi and Reid pretty much ignored them and Obama largely bypassed them on his way to the Presidency. For a short time, they were the Belles of the Ball (the fawning press coverage of the first YearlyKos and the Dean rise). Sometimes it seems similar to the Hillary sense of entitlement.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

sgwhiteinfla — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:19:01 -0000

Anybody who censors dissent on their website should just shut the fuck up whilst grown folks are talking. But in this case I really hope Chris Bowers keeps talking because he is showing himself to be more and more of a crackpot and he is going to have a lot more people running away from him and marginalizing him the more he talks. Now if we can only get the mainstream media to quit acting like he is some kind of spokesman for the left. But of course he will probably get airtime on FoxNews after putting that post up.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

DB Cooper — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:15:38 -0000

Somebody wake up the Republicans so the press can cover a fight between people who actually differ on issues, and aren't just narcissists.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

dwhite10701 — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:59:00 -0000

Eh, cleek's got it right. Bowers' been hostile towards Obama since the primary, and he's always looking for reasons to justify that hostility.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

Steve Balboni — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:40:05 -0000

When the only tool you have is a hammer...

Seriously, why does anyone pay attention to Bowers and Stoller? When was the last time they mattered, 2004? The term one trick pony comes to mind.

Ed Kilgore laid the smack down yesterday,

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/strategist/2008/12/labeling_the_cabinet.php

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

donovong — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:38:02 -0000

GMAFB. Obama could cure all disease, stop all hunger, repair the world economy, end all wars and resolve the BCS conundrum, and people like Bowers (or Big Tent Democrat) and his ilk would still be complaining about their lack of a pony.

Re: Of course then you read something like this...

cleek — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:28:50 -0000

some people just need things to bitch about.