The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Obama Wins The Nobel??

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Bruins2Lakers — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:22:06 -0000

somewhere in heaven, Big Maybelle is singing "Turn the World Around the Other Way..."

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Darth Thulhu — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:13:55 -0000

The University of Arizona, in shiny liberal Tucson, didn't do a thing to President Obama. Arizona State University, over in the conservative Phoenix metropolitan area, did invite him to speak and decline to present an honorary degree (for University policy change reasons I won't belabor, that they probably should have considered before extending the invite).

Since there is the tiniest, diaphonous glimmering of occasional rivalry between these two universities, their sports franchises, and their communities, please attribute your ire to the appropriate target.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Galleymac — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:56:33 -0000

I've always found it surprising what Scandinavians do indeed know about the U.S. (I once saw a broadcast in Sweden -- Swedish news -- that reported on some dog in Kentucky being lost down a well. Combine that with the fact that most younger Scandinavians speak English pretty darn well, and I wouldn't be surprised if politically-minded Norweigians did indeed know exactly who Limbaugh was.)

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

The Ninja Zombie — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:41:22 -0000

Dan W, Russia put nuclear missiles adjacent to us. We were mad because they had the ability to nuke NY without flying long range bombers.

You'll probably react differently if I point a gun at your head than if you see me putting on a vest.

Carrington, the only purpose of tripwire troops is to protect the Warsaw pact nations from invasion -- they are vastly too small to invade Russia.

Dob, so maybe the missile shield isn't so useless after all?

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

The Ninja Zombie — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:57:16 -0000

Plus, if he got a million bucks, he could travel all over the world on a "hey locals, check out this refrigerator you can build for cheap" tour. Right now, all he can do is build local franchises.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

silentbeep — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:57:06 -0000

And as a liberal i think it's cool and I don't think it's obviously dumb, but then again I'm not a conservative ;)

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

silentbeep — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:52:50 -0000

It's interesting to me that the detractors are giving so much credence to something that supposedly they hate so much. I'd say to those who are most vociferously against Obama getting this: if you have such a low opinion of what this particularly group of Northern Europeans think, why are you upset that Obama got this award?

I mean that question especially for some on the right wing who look askance at involvement in the U.N. at all, or even those during the Bush years who supported his "cowboy non-diplomacy" style. I mean really: if you disdain international diplomacy so much, who cares what the Nobel Peace Prize committee thinks?

I don't think this prize is really about Obama personally, I think it's purely symbolic of what his administration represents to many: a chance at a measured, calm, rational and diplomatic American presidency and foreign policy.

I see it as a nice gesture, no more no less, but I am proud that the got this prize. But it doesn't mean a whole lot, maybe he can parlay it into more "soft" diplomatic power. I am an American: how can I cannot be at least somewhat proud of our president getting this award?

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Hill Rat — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:50:05 -0000

Its just so obviously dumb I don't see why anyone takes it seriously enough to get their knickers in a twist over it.

The Nobel was totally discredited long before Obama got the award. Kissinger got the Nobel Peace Award for his role in ending a war that he escalated (Vietnam) and Arafat won for . . . well I don't really know how. Nobel voters have been out to lunch for several decades now.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

ST — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:46:11 -0000

He will explain that he's decided that's the best way forward for getting that country on a path to peace.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Polywogy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:43:44 -0000

Is it really only in the last year? I thought they looked further than that.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

JD — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:40:30 -0000

As a conservative my opinion is that the award is clearly not earned, clearly just the Nobel committee's way of saying F-U to Bush, and is basically a joke.

That said, I don't know why anyone would hold this against Obama. He didn't give himself a stupid unearned reward and its not his fault that others did.

Honestly, I have a hard time getting upset about this. Its just so obviously dumb I don't see why anyone takes it seriously enough to get their knickers in a twist over it.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Breukelyne — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:06:05 -0000

I seriously thought it was an Onion News Headline when I first read it. WTF????

I love Obama, but this is way premature. This is the first I've ever heard that the Nobel Peace Prize was about intentions rather than achievements. Perhaps that's always the case with peace work: very difficult to show a concrete achievement as some "proof" of the work one does. I'm also in a bit of disbelief that Obama is currently the most deserving person in the world in the realm of peace work, if intention is the standard. Maybe he's the most visible and powerful person advocating diplomacy as a tool.... but surely there are lesser-known, less-powerful people pushing for diplomacy in the face of conflict and fear, under more challenging, life-threatening conditions than our President faces.

And where are we on bringing justice to those who advocated torture? How can one award a Peace Prize to someone escalating troops in Afghanistan? I'm not saying that's the wrong path, it just seems to contradict the idea of awarding Obama a Peace Prize.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Jennifer D. — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:03:37 -0000

Or, more "rush."

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Polywogy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:01:40 -0000

I read Richard Feynman (Nobel in Physics) talking about how he wished that before they announce the prize, they'd call and ask you if you want it. He basically just didn't want all the attention it would bring him, but once it's been announced, it would be a even bigger deal if you didn't accept.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Polywogy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:55:33 -0000

"This is really the Norwegian committee jumping the shark."

I'd say more jumping the gun, but yeah, it's kind of ludicrous to think that Obama at this point has done more for peace than of all the other people in the world.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

donaldball — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:44:01 -0000

Because it leads towards first-strike capability. If it works as advertised, you can first-strike with near impunity. Even if it doesn't, if your policy-makers think it does, they might be inclined to initiate a first-strike.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

brucds — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:40:21 -0000

Who wants to bet that either John McCain or Lindsey Graham will be asked questions about this on either Meet The Press, This Week of Face the Nation this Sunday ?

Also, this is a great occasion for Rush to haul out "black quarterback" analogies and for Glenn Beck to expose the ties between the Nobel committee and ACORN. From the right's perspective this is like being crowned king of Socialistan.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Joshua Lyle — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:39:20 -0000

(replying to Carrinton @11:10 here as comments only nest finitely)

Yes, yes. The serial killer is a loose analogy. None the less, the point remains that the absolute measure does matter, and I think it matters more so than the relative in both cases.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Tim McGaha — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:37:48 -0000

I'd never heard of the zeerpot before, but having looked it up, it's brilliant. You're right, he SHOULD be getting more recognition than he does.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Carrington — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:18:47 -0000

I'd tend to raise the bar a bit: the prize is, essentially, for defeating an incumbent but increasingly erratic and irresponsible political party.

It's not that George Bush was George Bush, it's that the United States was behaving like a wasp-stung rogue elephant.

Not a particularly comforting view of our own behavior.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

ST — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:14:46 -0000

I have been laughing all morning about this, the absurdity, and the fact that it's going to drive the crazies 'round the bend. But the more I think about it, the more I think it is a deserved prize, apart from the minor significance of the committee throwing in its lot with his cause.

The Bush administration got really frightening, to me. It wasn't just about political differences. I had been taught from grade school that there was a morality to being American, that there were things we did not do. Under Bush, these things were knocked over like so many dominoes -- torture. Waging preemptive war. The absurd fiction that if we call people "enemy combatants" instead of "prisoner" we need pay no attention to their rights, because they have none. It wasn't just that the Administration did bad things, which administrations have always done -- it was the declared refusal to be governed by silly moral considerations.

Obama made it clear on his first day in office, when he announced that Guantanamo would be closed, that we had been off course, and that there is a necessary morality to being America - if not by virtue of our myths, then by virtue of our enormous power.

Just righting the ship was significant enough, not just in what it means to us, but in what it means to the rest of the world, to deserve the prize.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Pesto — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:11:20 -0000

Are we changing policy that much? Has Obama decided, finally, to end the occupation of Iraq? To pull our troops out of Afghanistan? To investigate and prosecute state-sanctioned torture, to repudiate it and call it unequivocally a war crime?

I agree that his speech in Cairo was excellent, and that his rearticulation of the US's already-existing legal commitment to total nuclear disarmament was a welcome message to the UN and the world. But how it going to look if Obama answers a question at a press conference about the prize by explaining why he's ordering 20,000 more US troops to be sent to Afghanistan?

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Carrington — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:10:41 -0000

The Nobellians aren't necessarily pacifists, which means for them that war is not necessarily murder.

Nobel's riches came from his manufacture of high explosives, mainly for the Western Front. His horror arose from the _scale_ of destruction to which he had contributed.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Ogdred — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:00:41 -0000

It's not the opinion of the wingnuts that worries me. I'm thinking about the people who already like the guy, but who are saying "huh?!"

I mean, if we're going to give out prizes for not being George Bush, then I think I should get one. I've been very disciplined about not being George Bush.

Re: Obama Wins The Nobel??

Carrington — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:58:48 -0000

You seem quite generous with other people's oil revenue.

As to the Nobel Committee saying F* Bush -- it's a fairly civilized rebuke: far better than testing a nuke or expanding an independent deterrent.

The Norwegians don't give much of a damn about Afghanistan, or, for that matter, about American troops fighting and dying on the Afghan plain.

The idea of a general middle eastern/south Asian war, stretching from Iraq to Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/(Pakistan's allies?/Russia, etc.) was a much greater concern.... even if it might have boosted North Sea oil revenues dramatically.

Did the Norwegians/Europeans think that such a conflagration was a possibility under Bush? Frankly, quite probably. Has the likelihood fallen to zero under Obama? Probably not? Has it diminished... probably... and crucially because the Russians and Chinese can be a little more confident in predicting what Obama will do.

Can you really say they were wrong to worry?