The Atlantic - Latest Comments in My President Is Black

Re: My President Is Black

Exmun — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:47:58 -0000

Coates,

It's possible to disagree with Dyson's approach without missing the point that he's accurately making... that if the structures of racism created or played a prominent role in creating the current status quo (wide gaps of socioeconomic equality), wouldn't giving everyone a boost up just preserve essentially the status quo... with 'everyone' being a bit better off?

There is some merit to Dyson's argument. If the goal is to correct the inequities built into the system over 400 years of inequality, there has to be a targeted effort aimed at the victimized group. It's irresponsible and somewhat hypocritical that we can all acknowledge that payment to Japanese citizens interned in WWII is an appropriate payment to correct a civil and economic wrong, and yet some targeted programs to eliminate the social inequity of institutionalized racism is somehow off the table. This argument is valid without regard to the color of the current President. I suspect what has Dyson's underwear bunched up is that the "rising tide" argument is being made by a man who identifies as African American.

And while I'm at it, let me throw out an idea for government assisted assistance. How about a reinvigorated enterprise zone program (much on the order of what Clinton started) targeted specifically at urban American cities where many African descendants live? The money funding such a venture and the aim of the program would be to foster seed capital for minority business... think grant oriented. If necessary, the administration could survey the landscape for types of business that meet the President's agenda (service industry, green jobs, environmentally friendly, etc).

I can't see how an urban agenda targeted in places where minorities live is any bit more problematic for the "whole" than so-called green jobs targeted to states in the "heartland," where few African descendants (i.e. African Americans) live.

Re: My President Is Black

Jennifer D. — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:08:38 -0000

He is no more the President of "black America" than George W Bush was the President of "White America".

Really? W fooled me, then. So did all those other white presidents who were in charge during slavery and before blacks could vote. Oh yeah, and that phrase, "People" as in "of", "for" and "by", didn't always include women, either. Hmmmm....

Re: My President Is Black

Storm — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:42:26 -0000

Nodding head in agreement.

Re: My President Is Black

irishpirate — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:20:15 -0000

I'M NOT IRATE!!!!

also my blood pressure is fine. 120/80 or better. Total cholesterol of 145. The benefits of being a regular blood donor is that I get my vitals and cholesterol tested every two months or so.

Toodles.

Re: My President Is Black

socgrad — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:56:48 -0000

You really need to stop being so irate, irishpirate, it's bad for your blood pressure.

Re: My President Is Black

Jennifer D. — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:37:23 -0000

Thanks, I found this list illuminating. One of the reasons I come here.

Re: My President Is Black

irishpirate — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:06:36 -0000

Look up the definition of the word "sarcasm".

Sincerely,

The White Devil

I'm glad some of your friends are white devils too.

It's a lovely sunny day here in Chicago. One disadvantage of being this white devil is having to avoid the sun. So like George W Bush being rejected by the University of Texas Law School life is not completely unfair.

Re: My President Is Black

socgrad — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:37:27 -0000

I didn't say that Obama was "the black president", I said that he is a black president. Note the difference between definite and indefinite articles used. Even though you would like to think of him as a president who happens to be black, he's not. He is in fact a black, mixed race president. And I'm confident in calling him black because he has publicly identified himself as such, a black mixed-race man.

Being black is a part of who he is, it's not just a happenstance. And you know what, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! He can be both a black man and the U.S. president at the same time. "Look Ma, no conflict of interest".

And you know it's funny (irritating) that you "understand white privilege" enough to recognize the unfairness of it, but you respond simply with, "that's the way it is". See, me, I respond to the unfairness of the current racial system with a desire to change it, not just accept it. But I'm sure that's because I'm on the other side of that whole white privilege thing.

BTW, I didn't refer to you as a white devil. Just because I have an opinion on this matter contrary to yours and told you so, doesn't mean that I think all white people are evil. In fact, some of my best friends are white.

Re: My President Is Black

Juba — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:36:14 -0000

You can watch Tavis' State of the Black Union (and yes, Rikyrah, I know how you feel about Tavis (-:) or pick up the annual Urban League report from any of the past 5-10 years and you'll see a list similar to the one Rikyrah banged out up top.

Glad you brought that up b/c when he was butting heads with Tavis, Obama defended himself by challenging him to find any policy in his Contract With Black America (or whatever) that he had not addressed previously, in either word or deed.

Now whether the words are leading to deeds is a relevant criticism, but for someone so nice with the words, for MED to go after him over the rhetoric he chooses or does not choose is a prime example of breaking a major Sun Tzu rule: avoiding fighting the opponent on his home field, whenever possible.

Re: My President Is Black

Sweet Jones — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:55:12 -0000

I think what threads like this show is just how far removed the concerns and conversations of everyday Black folk are from the mainstream, even amongst our supposed political allies.

Also, I have to humbly disagree with two people I highly respect on this: my 50-Yard Line steppin' partner Rikyrah and fellow yac sipper, sgwhiteinfla. While there are many critiques that can be leveled at Dyson and 'Black Leadership', IMO, the notion that they have no list of 'Black policies/issues' is wrong. Hell, they actually catch more grief for ONLY having a list of issues and not 'doing' anything about them.

You can watch Tavis' State of the Black Union (and yes, Rikyrah, I know how you feel about Tavis (-:) or pick up the annual Urban League report from any of the past 5-10 years and you'll see a list similar to the one Rikyrah banged out up top.

Much like Rikyrah, I fully expect Barack Obama, a man who built the start his political career on the backs of lower middle class Black folks, to still remember and address what their everyday concerns are. I don't think you can name any other voting bloc who would not demand the same.

Re: My President Is Black

rikyrah — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 08:22:02 -0000

Someone mentioned police brutality as a potential issue--I think that's legit as long as you frame it as the DOJ looking at civil rights violations by local police. If you call it "We need to stop the police from going after black people," that's going to run into problems.

It IS a civil rights issue. It's an issue of police terrorism of Black citizens. If the police would actually take care of Pookie and Ray Ray, that would be one thing. But, it's the fact that a random Black man, law-abiding and going about his business - the one thing he doesn't want to have - is any sort of confrontation with the police -not because it could land him in jail, but because it could land him in the MORGUE. When White folks, average everyday White folks, can express such a concern for themselves, then I'll take them seriously. Until then, it's about Black folks getting EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW, like the citizens that they are of this country.

Finally, I don't see Obama ever having such a special policy. Not only would it be very politically disruptive, but it would screw the chances of future candidates of color. Let's face it, Obama got a lot of the non-black vote because he convinced people that he would look out for the interests of all Americans, and not just people who look like him

So, protecting the civil rights of Black folks is a ' special policy'. It would be ' politically disruptive', because it would, gasp, force the police to actually do their jobs, instead of being able to run roughshod over Black folk?

Uh huh.

Re: My President Is Black

rikyrah — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 00:26:52 -0000

Reed, Bruce Dixon and Dr. Ron Walters- They'd give you so many specifics in 2 minutes, your head would spin. But, as you say, they speak of substance, not in fancy lyrics of 3 dollar words. They are serious folks who have looked at plans - in depth - and have no compunction about talking about them, but can't get them on tv if you put a gun to someone's head, because Dyson is more entertaining.

Re: My President Is Black

irishpirate — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 23:44:23 -0000

NO, I don't have a "black president". He didn't portray himself as that and I don't think he sees himself as that. If he begins to think of himself as "the Black President" he will likely fail.

One of my black friends, you know us white devils always claim to have one or two, does a hilarious impersonation of Obama's Victory speech in Grant Park on election night. Let's just say it is more Cleavon Little or Richard Pryor than Barack Obama. The fact is America elected Obama because, to quote some comedy skit I recall, "he's just white enough". By that I mean he doesn't fit any of the stereotypes of black America that white devils have. Outside maybe that whole basketball thing he has going on.

With the exception of Colin Powell who grew up in a diverse neighborhood in NYC with Jamaican parents I'm not sure that the first President who happens to be black could have come from anything, but an unusual background. Think about it. Your first "black President" has no "black American" relatives except the two he fathered.

I understand that he is black and he is President, but I don't think they go together. I personally find the arguments that he is not black or "black enough" silly. Believe me if a 25 year old Barack Obama wanted to date the average white girl or above average white girl her family would likely consider him plenty black.

I understand your point about "irony", but that's just the way it is. I also think I have some understanding of "white privilege". The day my Irish born dad got off the potato boat in NYC in the 50's he was considered more of an American than blacks who were born here.

I don't claim to know how much the various parts of his background, racial or otherwise, have impacted the man. My guess is he identifies more by "class" than race, but I could be wrong. The President has such a unique racial and cultural background that I think even he probably doesn't completely understand himself. Few of us do.

What's the impact of Hawaii on him?

What's the impact of Michelle?

What's the impact of Harvard?

What's the impact of his community organizing?

What's the impact of Chicago?

What's the impact of being tall?

What's the impact of not knowing his dad?

What's the impact of his mom's wanderlust?

What's the impact of the values and beliefs of his grandparents?

I have a President who happens to be black.

President Obama couldn't get elected or govern as "the black President".

Let Tavis Smiley,Dyson etc fight over who gets to be the leader of "black America". I think they will be disappointed to find out that "black America" is much more diverse than they want it to be.

Yes, I know there are many contradictions in what I have typed.

Life is nothing if not ambiguous. Just be glad I said that instead of saying "life ain't black or white".

Re: My President Is Black

socgrad — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:06:18 -0000

(Adding to sgwhiteinfla's comment) One thing Obama could do that would specifically help all minorities in this country and that would probably fly under most media radar is beef up (in funding, staff, and mission) all sections of the civil rights division of the DOJ to enforce the numerous anti-discimination laws that are already on the books.

We already have these laws and they cover most every area of life: employment, education, housing, access to credit, and voting. But most of the previous administrations (particularly Republican administrations) have made it a point to neglect or underfund civil rights enforcement or staff the division with people who are actually opposed to civil rights enforcement.

Racial discrimination is the one thing (unequivocally) that minority citizens face that white citizens don't and where racially targeted policy is obviously warranted.

Re: My President Is Black

socgrad — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:49:26 -0000

You have a black president. Just as much (probably more) as his Chicago background has influenced who he is, so has his identity as a mixed race black man. That's just the way it is.

Also, it's particularly ironic hearing white people stress how Obama is the president of the United States not black America and how he should govern for the good of all people when most black people (and I wager most other minorities) are well aware that most of our previous presidents have not been so "colorblind" in their stewardship of the U.S. government.

I'm not saying that I want Obama to show preference to black citizens or that I think he will. I'm just saying, the irony is hard to ignore.

Re: My President Is Black

nathan — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:06:11 -0000

This is the part that really irritates me about Dyson, as well. Discourses about race that deal with policy questions need to be able to link race with economics, institutions, etc., and then come up with at least some specific analysis, and better yet recommendations. Everything about Dyson seems annoyingly vague. Compare Dyson, for example, to Adolph Reed. Now Reed's boundless pessimism and reflexive anti-Obama stance can be frustrating, but nobody could doubt that he could come up with exactly the critique and recommendations you're asking for, TNC. Unfortunately he's not mainstream media's idea of a Charismatic Race Man(tm), so he doesn't get a lot of air time.

Re: My President Is Black

JTHC — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:48:00 -0000

I think it would be one thing to have a "Black People Policy"; it's an entirely different thing to call it that (or even have such a notion leaked to the press). Despite the historical injustices specially done to black people in this country, it's still something like 88% non-black, and most are probably not too keen on the Federal Government undertaking such a program.

Re: My President Is Black

ludovicspeaks — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:53:04 -0000

The rising tide/universal programs argument is a serious one--many folks trumpet the New Deal, but it created a white middle class while excluding almost all people of color from the housing, educational and other programs that we paid taxes for, but were either explicitly or implicitly barred from. In other words, the GI bill sent white guys to college, but since most colleges didn't accept people of color, it didn't matter that the GI bill would pay for us to go to school.

So there's a targeted universalism--make sure there's a rising tide to lift all boats, and making sure we patch up all boats, not steal the black folks' planks to patch the white folks' boats.

So the attack on the rising tide argument is a powerful, forward looking one that more folks need to make.

the rest of his stuff is gunk. like other folks have said, what's his agenda? and if he has one, how high up is Obama calling him on that agenda?

One thing is true--Michael Eric Dyson and his crew make me wish Jesse Jackson would re-emerge--at least he ran for office, and left campaign structures behind to elect mayors in NYC and governors in VA. After Michael, Tavis, Cornel and the crew run through there's not much left behind.

Re: My President Is Black

CitizenE — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:50:12 -0000

I am in complete agreement with your point, but what I don't know is whether there are advocacy groups within government, the media, the blogosphere also making noise and doing something about it.

Re: My President Is Black

rikyrah — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:45:16 -0000

I don't understand what you mean by advocacy. But, the Prison Industrial Complex issue of of JUSTICE. That folks are getting rich off of young Black men (and increasingly women), who are being thrown into the judicial system, more often than not, for NON-violent offenses. It is decimating the Black community, and yes, I expect a BLACK MAN who is President, to address differently than a White man who can hide behind his delusions of being ' tough on crime'.

Re: My President Is Black

sgwhiteinfla — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:34:50 -0000

Well that would kinda be a hard one to tackle anyway as its usually moreso a local issue. But one place I do think he will help is rebuilding the Civil Rights division of the DOJ. So if someone takes a brutality claim to the federal level it will be more likely that it gets looked at seriously.

Re: My President Is Black

rikyrah — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:32:24 -0000

I agree. I forgot this one. He doesn't have to address it, as long as HOLDER begins to hold federal grand juries on these cases.

Re: My President Is Black

CitizenE — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:32:20 -0000

Sorry to do this twice--would that we could erase our own entries, but I want you to understand this as a response to your post:

What advocacy is there for these issues, especially the prison issue?

What is already being done (didn't Clinton begin to address access to capital? also, while I found his book pedestrian, do you know what Van Jones is up to in the Obama administration and what the likelihood of any enactment of establishing a "green-collar economy" in black communities as part of Obama's energy plans?)?

Re: My President Is Black

CitizenE — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:29:09 -0000

Re: My President Is Black

Juba — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:15:00 -0000

The one specifically Black issue that came to mind for me was police brutality.

He isnt and probably wont be addressing that (sadly, troublingly) however.