The Atlantic - Latest Comments in More Thoughts On Being PC

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jessica — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:22:02 -0000

Glad you said it, silentbeep. I was hoping somebody would have beaten me to it. FWIW, here's one more person who believes in political correctness but not in Weight Watchers.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jennifer D. — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:17:52 -0000

ha ha!

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jennifer D. — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:16:49 -0000

I hereby give up on defending the gays! Fine, all of you go around saying faggot, gay boy, and homo as much as you want. I am serene in my pristine city by the Bay.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Eric L — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:10:08 -0000

Sarah Palin shared her thoughts on PC last night: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0609/Palin_Screw_the_political_correctness.html

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Juba — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:05:17 -0000

Im kinda glad you didnt, so it worked out ok.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

silentbeep — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:56:14 -0000

two years AGO. D'oh!

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

silentbeep — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:52:26 -0000

"But watching conservatives mock liberals for being PC, is like watching the morbidly obese mock Weight Watchers for its system of points."

So not PC. Ironically, in an essay about tolerance and the validity of PC! But then again, fatness is one of those subjects that many in the liberal, progressive community, feel perfectly comfortable judging, dicriminating against, and stereotyping. Your essay was so right on TNC. However, this line above implies an ignorance of a highly nuanced, and complex issue, especially for women. In fact, a scientific study came out two years from UCLA, finding that dieting does not work.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

sv — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:57:12 -0000

we came to the conclusion that political correctness is just another term for (public) respect.

I made this point in another thread but it bears repeating. It's respect, period; it's got nothing to do with political conservatism or liberalism as I see it (small or large c's or l's) - plenty of conservatives I know tend to adhere to what Liberals would call PC simply because they were raised well enough to show all the people they deal with respect and courtesy. I think Conservatives complaining about this sort of thing is part of their whole "Liberal Media Bias" spiel.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:20:25 -0000

I forgot all about that. I should have used that as an example. Damn. Missed opportunity.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

The Ninja Zombie — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:24:34 -0000

Anywhere besides SF, most likely. A conversation I once observed while playing basketball:

Person 1: Foul? I barely touched you. Don't be such a gay homo.

Person 2: Totally foul, and I am a gay homo. I love my boyfriend's huge cock.

Person 1: Brushing against your shirt isn't a foul...You are gay? Sorry.

...5 minutes later...

Person 1 to Person 2: Go lick a pussy! [In response to having the ball stolen from him]

(For the record, it was a foul.)

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Mark — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:40:42 -0000

I've known a variety of gay people as long as I can remember. I know single gay men who are exceeding careful about sex (to the point of avoiding it) because of the risks involved, and I had friends who were into PNP and ultimately died of AIDS.

Your comment is a perfect example of intellectual dishonesty about some aspects of the public gay events in our city. Yes, the Sunday Pride parade is sufficiently sanitized to bring your children to. But the Saturday night before it is the scene of lots of public sex in the Castro. And the Folsom St leather festival involves public floggings and full frontal male nudity.

You say you took your kid to the Pride parade, but I can bet you didn't take her to either of the other two events. Because they are "too gay." Not bad, not uncool - lots of people like leather and bondage, after all. Just "too gay."

And the point about political power and influence is that you don't need to tiptoe around the people who control the world for fear of hurting their feelings. In San Francisco, they happen to be older, gay white men instead of the older, straight white men who run the bulk of rest of the country.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Guest — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 03:40:14 -0000

"Similarly, growing up Irish Catholic in Boston was not good preparation for understanding the rest of the world."

As a Irish Catholic who was born and raised in a town not far from Boston, I find this statement offensive.

You should try to be more politically correct. *shakes head disapprovingly*

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jennifer D. — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 02:17:30 -0000

I can't figure out how to reply to the reply below. Anyway, I promise not to keep this going after this reply, but seriously ...

This is a perfect example of the kind of thinking that makes saying something is "too gay" not cool. When you equate "gay" with encroaching power/political influence, leather bars, chaps and anonymous sex on the beach, then I would say you are using the word derisively. I've taken my kid to the Pride Parade and so do thousands of others. It is not an event of wanton depravity with people having sex and flogging each other on the streets.

Maybe you should try to make friends with some more gay people and see if that adjusts your perceptions. As you noted, they are at least 20% of the population here, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Mark — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 00:31:43 -0000

I think you're too sensitive - San Francisco is what? 20% gay people? And a much higher percentage among the moneyed and the powerful. No matter where I've lived in The City, I've had a gay city supervisor. Now I also have a gay State Rep and a gay State Senator. We have a police force that is not allowed to restrict full male nudity and whip lashings in the street during the leather fest. I won't argue that gay people have achieved full equality, but they do not lack for influence in San Francisco.

Ever walked down to the end of Baker Beach without knowing what goes on over there? Ever seen the key to the women's washroom at Moby Dick? [It's a fish, because women are...well, I don't need to explain.] I won't describe the public sex acts I've walked past during Pride weekend.

"Not really my thing" sounds a little mealy-mouthed to me. If going to an event means that there will be live sex acts or public floggings, you should be able to say that you think it is "too gay."

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Kathleen Fallon — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 23:05:43 -0000

this post needs to grow into a full blown essay/article/chapter, please! so i can send it to my family. brilliant, really.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Carrington — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:20:00 -0000

I might quarrel with the use of the term "PC" itself -- partially because its worth reserving the term for the sort of evasiveness and linguistic dishonesty Orwell describes in 'politics and the English Language.'

The sad thing is that American conservatives are, in essence, deriding manners, etiquette, and diplomacy while obscuring and trivializing the real dangers attending political censorship...

But maybe that latter is their true goal.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

albatross — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:14:45 -0000

drlemur:

The kind of PC that could also be labeled as empathy (or the specific subset of empathy that's focused on trying to understand and value the Other) is akin to politeness. The kind of PC that shouts people down or ascribes evil motives on very small evidence (what a bunch of folks on the right are trying to do to Sotomayor), that seems very, very different from politeness.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Carrington — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:55:57 -0000

There's another aspect: to one degree or another, the United States now bids against China to get oil from Nigeria and Sudan.

Diplomacy is a necessity, racism a luxury we can no longer afford.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

kid bitzer — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:34:51 -0000

you know one of the reasons why conservatives don't like pc?

because they place such a high, disproportionate value on something they call "authenticity," on something else they call "being true to yourself", or "being comfortable with yourself."

their heroes--reagan or rocky, take your pick--exude self-confidence and never show doubt. they know who they are, and they don't feel any need to change.

but what they miss is the fact that change is important, too. if you grew up racist or ignorant, then you really *ought* to change. you owe it to others, and to yourself.

and that change is not going to look self-confident and cocky all the time. sometimes it is going to look awkward and uncertain. sometimes you are going to defer to others, to conform to their opinions, on the way to learning how to be a better person.

tnc has done a great job talking about how you make false steps, you look like a jerk, you sound like a foreigner in your own land. that's what happens when you try to make honest change in deep aspects of your beliefs.

those are aspects of the self that the reagan-worshippers cannot help but deride. they cannot see self-doubt as a form of honesty; they see it as evidence that you lack "authenticity", that you're not a regular guy and a straight-shooter.

fact is, they prefer people who are complacently racist, to people who are awkwardly overcoming their own racism.

the entire conservative movement, certainly from the time of reagan, has been almost more an aesthetic preference than a coherent ideology. everything has to be cowboy. everything has to be marlboro man. ignorant is fine, just never in doubt.

when you see them ridiculing pc? it's because they always laugh at anyone who is open to honest doubt, anyone who thinks that maybe they themselves should try to change, to be different in the future than they are right now.

it's also because, somewhere inside, it fills them with doubts as well. and they just can't cope with that.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jennifer D. — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:07:57 -0000

I'm not gay, but ...

I live in San Francisco, too, and I would never say that something is "way too gay." How about "Leather festivals ... not really my thing."

Maybe I am too sensitive around my gay friends, but I think not. If they want to say something is too gay, fine. They oughtta know. Not for me to say. Just sayin'.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jennifer D. — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:03:36 -0000

If you used the word "faggy" or "gay" as a derogatory term in a group of people who were aware of the context in which you were using it (i.e., with no relationship to homosexuality), I'm not sure I'd see a problem with it.

On what planet do people live where the word faggy or gay does not have a relationship to homosexuality? Given, I live in San Francisco, but still ...

As long as some people still use these words for derision, and sometimes as the prelude to a harsh beating or even murder, I personally think they are off limits to the rest of us.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Jennifer D. — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:56:02 -0000

Similarly, growing up Irish Catholic in Boston was not good preparation for understanding the rest of the world. Where I grew up, stupid people were Retahds, lots of people were Fags, Latinos were Ricans and Asians were Chinks, etc., I am sure you can guess the rest. I learned a lot over the years from different experiences and my liberal mother. Moving to San Francisco opened my eyes to a whole new world when it came to gays, Asians and Latinos, plus many other different types of people. But, interestingly, Boston, with all its reputation for being racially charged between blacks and whites, was where I formed my strongest black friendships. It seems like we tried harder to understand each other because of what was happening around us, and there was always something like "Rock Against Racism" going on at school to encourage us to think differently - a perfect liberal concept to sneer at these days. To me, being proudly PC just means trying to understand and respect other people's experiences and points of view. Whatever other opinions are about it, the liberal ideas and PC corrections have really worked for a lot of people - I know my teenager and her friends just have no idea of what it is like growing up putting everyone into a racial category that determines whether or not you can be friends. It is utterly foreign to them, and for that I am grateful and hopeful.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

BreakerBaker — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:55:19 -0000

that's what THEY want you to think.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Juba — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:17:53 -0000

When I was kid in Baltimore, it was common for me to refer to the corner store as the "chink store." It was common for me to use the word "faggy" to dis one of my friends. I don't really have much of a defense of any of that. In my neighborhood, it was just how my peers talked, and I accepted it without any questions. I had my share of preconceptions about people who were not black. I was kid with a voracious appetite for reading--but mostly I read about myself, and lacked any real sense of the world as being populated by people who were different than me, and still fully human. It was ugly, if necessary mix, of youth and inexperience.

Coates, you already know!!

...how I learned about that "chinky-eyed" stuff the hard way. *Sigh*

Hard lesson but Im glad I learned it.

Re: More Thoughts On Being PC

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:14:42 -0000

Hah! I thought that was insanity...