The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Look for the Union Label

Re: Look for the Union Label

BenjaminL — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:06:25 -0000

It reminds me of this classic AFSCME spot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0

Re: Look for the Union Label

bullman — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:24:19 -0000

Thanks for the memory Megan. My father was in labor relations and he used to sing this song around the house in jest. He especially liked the line "yes, we work hard, but who's complaining?"

Re: Look for the Union Label

Foobarista — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:38:56 -0000

Megan, sure, things weren't perfect, and I didn't say they were. And if you were Chinese or Indian, ye olden days were far nastier than today. But even there, a surprising number of Chinese are nostalgic for the Maoist "olden days" when everyone was - apparently - similarly poor and bad things largely happened to Other People.

One irony of our more affluent time is if you screw up financially, you have far further to fall, and it's a lot easier to screw up financially simply because you have more to lose. Skilled jobs pay a lot more, but are a lot harder to transfer out of if your skill suddenly becomes obsolete.

We've come a lot closer to achieving the competitive ideal, where you basically trade certainty for wealth, and we've got it: a much richer, but much more volatile society.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Greg Hlatky — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:00:50 -0000

Well, isn't that old commercial nice. It really takes me back.

Meanwhile, Philadelphia's transit workers walked out after a strike was called by Local 234 of the Transport Workers Union. No alternative mass transit for the city's commuters, who have to walk, take cabs or bike. A previous strike in 2005 lasted 7 days and one in 1998 lasted 40 days.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Megan McArdle — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:10:01 -0000

Those old environments provided a sense of security in the sense that the past always looks more secure than the present. There were a lot of very insecure people--those cushy jobs for life were a minority of jobs even at their peak. My grandfather owned a gas station and worried himself into a tizzy frequently right through the fabulous fifties and the serene sixties. Blacks, latinos, many women, etc were all economically insecure.

Re: Look for the Union Label

movertyperguy — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:50:35 -0000

Do you have some definition of card check that doesn't call for ending the secret ballot in union elections?

No, he doesn't.

Wikipedia on Card Check:

Card check (also called majority sign-up) is a method for employees to organize into a labor union in which a majority of employees in a bargaining unit sign public authorization forms, or "cards," stating they wish to be represented by the union.

The current method for workers to form a union in a particular workplace in the United States is a sign-up then an election process. In that, a petition or an authorization card with the signatures of at least 30% of the employees requesting a union is submitted to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), who then verifies and orders a secret ballot election.

Card check would end the secret ballot election.

Re: Look for the Union Label

TallDave — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:18:08 -0000

There's a reason they got excited about roast beef on Sundays on Leave it to Beaver. They could only afford it once per week.

Just amazing how different things are now.

Re: Look for the Union Label

TallDave — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:17:03 -0000

we live in marvelous times.

Indeed. Drew Carey has a great video on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvuHREm5jg

Re: Look for the Union Label

dskc — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:05:27 -0000

Yeah, it certainly had nothing to do with the pennies per hour paid in the developing world. It's obviously all the ILGWU's fault.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Foobarista — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:49:50 -0000

For better or worse, people tend to do relative comparisons and not absolute ones. I'm not old enough to have a lot of personal memories of those days, but one thing that those old environments did provide was a sense of security.

It was obviously bogus as "real" security goes, but it existed and remains in memory, meaning that politicians who promise to "bring it back" by doing this and that are listened to.

Re: Look for the Union Label

this is not my real name — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:23:27 -0000

More:

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/07/spending-on-food-at-all-time-historical.html

Spending on food has dropped from 24% of income in 1950 to 9% today.

There's a reason they got excited about roast beef on Sundays on Leave it to Beaver. They could only afford it once per week.

Re: Look for the Union Label

this is not my real name — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:18:32 -0000

Burden of proof oughta be on the one that suggested that times were oh-so-great in the past.

It shouldn't be up to me to refute when I could have simply said "proof please."

But here's a start for you:

http://cafehayek.com/2006/01/working_for_sea.html

"Sears’ lowest-priced 10-inch table saw: 52.35 hours of work required in 1975; 7.34 hours of work required in 2006.

Sears’ lowest-priced gasoline-powered lawn mower: 13.14 hours of work required in 1975 (to buy a lawn-mower that cuts a 20-inch swathe); 8.56 hours of work required in 2006 (to buy a lawn-mower that cuts a 22-inch swathe. Sears no longer sells a power mower that cuts a swathe smaller than 22 inches.)

Sears Best freezer: 79 hours of work required in 1975 (to buy a freezer with 22.3 cubic feet of storage capacity); 39.77 hours of work required in 2006 (to buy a freezer with 24.9 cubic feet of storage capacity; this size freezer is the closest size available today to that of Sears Best in 1975.)

Sears Best side-by-side fridge-freezer: 139.62 hours of work required in 1975 (to buy a fridge with 22.1 cubic feet of storage capacity); 79.56 hours of work required in 2006 (to buy a comparable fridge with 22.0 cubic feet of storage capacity.)

Sears’ lowest-priced answering machine: 20.43 hours of work required in 1975; 1.1 hours of work required in 2006.

A ½-horsepower garbage disposer: 20.52 hours of work required in 1975; 4.59 hours of work required in 2006."

Re: Look for the Union Label

Dimitri Cavalli — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:28:05 -0000

I remember in the late 1980s, there were ads asking you to buy clothes or products with the "Made in the USA" label. People in the ad said, "You better believe it matters to me."

I also remember a long ad on FOX touting its programming. Actor Ed O'Neill, who played Al Bundy on its hit "Married With Children," opened his suit jacket to reveal a "FOX" label. He smiles and says, "You better believe it matters to me."

Re: Look for the Union Label

Megan McArdle — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:21:54 -0000

This isn't even vaguely contested. Air conditioning, clothes, health care (state of the art treatment for a heart attack in 1950 was painkillers and bed rest), year-round fresh produce . . . we live in marvelous times.

Re: Look for the Union Label

ArrowSmith — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:04:06 -0000

The next step for Barry and his thugs is to go after safe havens for capital like Singapore. Perhaps he will direct our occupation armies there. He will ensure that capitalism is not safe anywhere.

Re: Look for the Union Label

ArrowSmith — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:59:40 -0000

Proof please. I'd really like to take a look at living conditions of a typical lower middle class family of 4 in 1950 and 2009. I wouldn't be shocked if there is no improvement in 59 years thanks to the wonders of international trade.

Re: Look for the Union Label

ArrowSmith — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:52:48 -0000

You nailed it with the safety issue. No amount of color TVs or cell phones can improve a life where you wonder if this is the night your home will be invaded by some thug bent on causing destruction to you and your family. Might as well be Bangladeshi.

Re: Look for the Union Label

this is not my real name — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:46:27 -0000

"There was a brief period for about 25 years after WWII when someone with a middle-school education and a strong back could get what was considered an excellent job with solid benefits."

You're falling victim to nostalgia.

I'm not going to bother doing your research for you -- but go look at the standard of living for a family of four in post-WW2 USA. Sure, it was higher than the rest of the world, but only a small fraction experienced what the 50th percentile does today.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Megan McArdle — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:30:54 -0000

Do you have some definition of card check that doesn't call for ending the secret ballot in union elections?

Re: Look for the Union Label

Angst — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:17:06 -0000

On further reflection, I think I would want to let the lions and tigers loose on the Senators and Congress Critters who Won the plebiscite as well :-)

Re: Look for the Union Label

JTHC — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:15:42 -0000

It doesn't matter. Ultimately the unions will lose because capital is global and it doesn't care about union slogans and demands for collective bargaining.

Look at what just happened with Boeing and its decision to start a second 787 line in South Carolina. The writing is on the wall for everyone to see: Boeing is eventually going to leave Washington state and move its manufacturing south. Why? Because it's sick of dealing with the IAM and organized labor. They're sick of work stoppages and opportunistic strikes that harm Boeing in the world markets. Last year the IAM went on a completely unnecessary strike for two months. Why? Because the economy was in the tank, Boeing was behind on the 787, and the union figured that they could squeeze some blood from the corporation while its back was against the wall. Too bad, they won the battle and lost the war, killed the golden goose, and in 20-30 years Seattle will look like Detroit.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Angst — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:58:55 -0000

I would be in favor of the Roman Coliseum approach - the thumbs up or down - and then set the lions and tigers loose on the Senators and Congress Critters who lose the plebiscite ;->

Re: Look for the Union Label

Calvin Jones and the 13th Apos — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:51:14 -0000

And what's worse, they want to end the secret ballot - the hallmark of a democratic society.

Proof? You don't have any because it is not true. Stop watching Glenn Beck reruns all day.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Ann — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:41:20 -0000

"while being able to live at something beyond a Bangladeshi lifestyle"

I agreed with you through most of what you said, but Bangladeshi? Even those living in poverty in the US still have it pretty good materially by global standards, with power, heat, color TVs, etc. They don't always have safety - it's a disgrace that so many poor people in the US have to worry about drive-by shootings, etc. But their material lifestyle is still well above that in much of the world.

I'm not saying that things here couldn't be better, but we need to keep some perspective. It doesn't seem fair to people living in 'true' poverty around the world for us to pretend that all countries have something close to what we have.

Re: Look for the Union Label

Michael B — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:38:48 -0000

Also-

Homer: Does this union boss job pay anything?

Carl: No.

Homer: D'oh!

Carl: Unless you're crooked.

Homer: Woo-hoo!

Or something like that.