The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Deborah — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:59:25 -0000

They've demanded SAT scores from both. As in, we can't judge their work in the offices they've held over the years; what we really need is to see the SAT scores they racked up at 16 or 17.

I'm younger than both and my SAT scores haven't been relevant to any job I might want for two decades.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Aubrey Maturin — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:42:04 -0000

Previous non-white population influxes involved those migrants being actively oppressed (slaves, coolies, farm laborers) and socially/politically subordinated to white majorities in their new homes. Recent years have seen non-white groups earn full citizenship alongside white Americans.

I think this equality is new and unsettling to groups who are used to seeing visibly different (color) people in inferior social/political class. Individually, issues of pride, self-regard, and envy fuel resentment at the rise of a clearly different group outside your own. It was different with Italians, Irish, etc., because they could visibly assimilate over a few generations. They could "pass" as part of the dominant sub-group and plenty tried because they could.

My point is that this nativist, defensive reaction by some like Buchanan has a likelihood of growing over the next few decades given trends. Some of these people truly feel under siege. It doesn't come from an evil place, it's human and understandable -- it comes from a conservative frame of mind that's wary of unknown consequences of change.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Byrk — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:56:24 -0000

Patrick J. Buchanan: the gift that just keeps on giving... to Jon Stewart.

Remember when they said Jon Stewart would run out of material once Bush was out of office?

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Tim — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:54:54 -0000

Perhaps he was trying to appeal to the Simpsons?

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

albatross — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:52:05 -0000

There's this theme I've seen a lot in the last year or so, in which both Obama and Sotomayor get their academic achievements questioned due to affirmative action. Buchanan's comments about what books she was reading to polish up her English fit into that pattern.

Here's what I think is going on there: Some largish fraction of the kind of voters/readers Buchanan is looking for are convinced, deep down, that it's just not possible that Obama or Sotomayor were among the brightest people in their top-tier law schools. Knowing their conclusion, they are very receptive to "evidence" that supports it. So, for them, snarking on the books she read in college, or implying that affirmative action not only got her into top-tier schools, but also got her top grades, is pretty effective. It's what a lot of his listeners/readers want, even need, to believe. It lets those listeners spin a story in which the world is still consistent with their beliefs and hopes.

This general phenomenon is called Confirmation Bias. It's very common, and very hard to avoid doing. I think Buchanan is exploiting confirmation bias on the part of his listeners/readers, and maybe fooling himself with it, too.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

albatross — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:25:11 -0000

Actually, it's an interesting question whether the current ongoing demographic change is unique in our history. Are the changes going on bigger than during the massive waves of immigration from Ireland, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe? Or the social changes as the Northeast industrialized? Or the social changes after the end of slavery and the civil war? Or the transition from mostly local government to mostly federal government controlling things? Or the transition between women almost never working professional jobs (and usually not working outside the home once married, if they had any choice at all) to more than half the law and medical school graduates being women? Or the near-complete collapse of the rust belt?

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Tinare — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:14:50 -0000

Yep. Levels of fail in just getting that sign up there in the first place. Someone sent the copy to the printing company, someone at the printing company set it up and printed it, then allowed it to leave the shop printed, it arrive to the event, and someone decided to hang it even though it was misspelled.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Kylopod — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:27:48 -0000

Yeah, I was assigned Bradbury in middle school, and he was one of my favorite writers as a teenager, but I've never seen his books in the children's or young adult's section of a library or bookstore. Besides, lot of us geeks used to read "adult" sci-fi when we were kids. (I first read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when I was ten.)

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

JAD1973 — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:06:38 -0000

Yellow people? People with jaundice? Huh?

Again, wow.

Patrick J. Buchanan: the gift that just keeps on giving... to Jon Stewart.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

anna perez — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:05:09 -0000

Another question. What exactly about African American political and social achievement since the Civil Rights era has the potential to be "revolutionary?" Jewish, Irish, Italian immigrants all did the same things, in pretty much the same ways (except of course for the lynchings and dogs and the hoses parts.) One more: does my equality in America still need to be secured? Why?

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

anna perez — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:52:12 -0000

Africans brought to these shores as slaves centuries ago was, in fact, "massive non-European immigration." The annexation of Mexican territory almost two hundred years ago was a form of "massive non-European immigration." The Chinese laborers who helped build American rail roads were a pretty big "non-European immigration." If we've been here for so long, what exactly is Pat Buchanan afraid of? What does he think, or what do you think he thinks may come? What exactly are your friends and colleagues afraid of? That's an honest question, one that I have never been able to answer. Can you?

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Aubrey Maturin — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:41:11 -0000

You're right about the wholly American identity of Hispanic, Black, and Asian ethnic groups in this country. You're also right about the essential imprint of these Americans on our history and culture.

But I think I'm correct in saying that the combination of (1) massive non-European immigration post WWII, and (2) the sharp rise of African American political and social achievement since the Civil Rights era has been unique in our history and as these trends gain scale over the next few decades, the effects could be revolutionary. Put another way, it's a lot of change in a relatively short period of time. I think Pat Buchanan is fearful of what may come. Friends and colleagues who I respect and value may also share a smidgen of these fears. As demographic trends march on, I think it will be important to secure the equality and equity achieved thus far by recognizing the concerns of the future minority and trying to address them constructively.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

anna perez — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:11:25 -0000

I could agree with you AM except that America has not had 300 years of white culture and politics, particularly not culture. African Americans, Hispanics and Asians didn't get here a couple of years ago or even a couple of decades ago. We have always been here, helping to create and contributing to what is and has always been an American culture and political society unique to the world. We won't be "layering" on top of anything because from day one we helped build this country and create this culture. And African Americans, Hispanics and Asians won't be suddenly dominating this country, we are all and have always been Americans, ergo, Americans will continue to dominate America. The problem is people like Buchanan, for whatever reason--racism, fear (tho' what did we ever do to White people to prompt this fear?) insecurity--have been in denial for centuries.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Aubrey Maturin — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:42:18 -0000

In a few decades, when self-identified white Americans comprise a minority portion of the population, Pat Buchanan and guys like him will be viewed as prophets to a large part of the lower-income, low-social-status whites people who harbor resentment at the new order of things. These large demographic changes don't occur without social conflict and political firefights. What is an America "dominated" by African, Latino, and Asian ethnic character layered on top of 300 years of white politics and culture? There will be strong resistance to the impacts of these inescapable demographic trends.

I sense the hate from Buchanan. But I also suspect it comes from vulnerability, not from haughty superiority. He's fearful. The more we laugh at and mock the sense of insecurity and injustice that finds expression in these vile statements, I think the anger deepens. Education, integration, dialogue, "group therapy," there's a lot of work to be done. Shouldn't you fight the "bad" with the "good?" Martin Luther King used to paraphrase Jesus, urging his listeners to fight hate with love -- hate just begets hate, wars more wars until we're falling into the "dark abyss of annihilation."

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Persia — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:11:44 -0000

For serious.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

rikyrah — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:10:37 -0000

I would say to you.. ' They really didn't say Yellow People'...but then again, let's look at who we're talking about...OF COURSE THEY DID.

sigh.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

CParis — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:58:12 -0000

I'm with you on this one. This sign had to be printed professionally, it's not like someone used construction paper and a sharpie!

If I were running that event and saw that mispelling, I would have never hung up the sign - it just screams stooopid!

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

anna perez — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:48:00 -0000

I didn't get the memo: when did it become a bad thing to speak more than one language? As much as I like MSNBC, somehow I just don't think this really epic fail will be noted on any of their programs. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so. "Uncle" Pat is one of their own. And when will he explain exactly how Judge Sotomayor rigged Phi Beta Kapa, her high school and college grade point averages, her undergraduate prize and the Yale Law Review?

I just want to shout to them all "I am not Margaret Dumont!" Marx bros. fans will remember that Ms. Dumont was Groucho's permanent comic foil to whom he once said so memorably "who are you going to believe? Me or your lyin' eyes!"

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Jennifer D. — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:18:56 -0000

Listen, I have learned to accept misspellings on blogs (grudgingly, and mostly because I know it is already a lost battle), but as a graphic designer, misspelled signs make me want to kill someone. There is no excuse. Luckily, the "working class white Democrats" they are appealing to are too dumb to spell correctly anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. (At least, that's what Pat's kind really thinks.) I'm glad that Pat is exposing himself for who he really is these days because I was softening toward him as the crazy uncle type watching all his exchanges with Rachel Maddow during the elections. Now I can see good 'ol Pat is just an old-fashioned bigot who likes the "old bigotry."

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Monstertron — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:03:05 -0000

Call this a stupid WoW question, but how did we go from "LOL" to "lawl"? Any thoughts on the next stage in these developments?

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Ha! — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:04:24 -0000

If only Matt policed his blog so diligently.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Ha! — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:02:26 -0000

He's even lazier than a Mexican, really...

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:45:52 -0000

lawl. ur so banned.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

enjiex — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:44:58 -0000

Dude, all your links to your own site makes you look like an internet crazy person. I'm sorry if that comes off as an Ad Hominem, but it's the like the first rule of etiquette to not link to your own site in order to back up your arguments.

Re: Layers Upon Layers Of Fail

Jingo Killah — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:38:18 -0000

Must... resist. Don't.... feed. Don't......click. Give....troll.....nothing.