The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Last Night

Re: Last Night

MoeLarryAndJesus — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:09:45 -0000

Nausicaa writes: "McCain's long rant on the Georgia conflict, and how we must confront lawlessness and aggressiveness in nations that neglect international law and put Americans at risk - in a nutshell, described the last eight years of Republican Foreign policy as supported by McCain. The sort of disconnect that has to exist in the Republican mind, to hear that and not immediately think of Iraq, but to instead applaud, is staggering."

Exactly. The current Repiglican view on foreign policy is insane, hypocritical, and stupid. Putin responded to the US condemnation accordingly. "Who the fuck do you morons think you are," was essentially his response, and what else could we expect? Seven plus years of the Dumbya/McSame show has left the US a toothless old bully that has lost the respect of the global neighborhood.

Re: Last Night

Nausicaa — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:54:14 -0000

I agree with Karl. The speech and rabid applause were maddening precisely because so much of what McCain spoke out against, he and his party have been guilty of themselves. McCain's long rant on the Georgia conflict, and how we must confront lawlessness and aggressiveness in nations that neglect international law and put Americans at risk - in a nutshell, described the last eight years of Republican Foreign policy as supported by McCain. The sort of disconnect that has to exist in the Republican mind, to hear that and not immediately think of Iraq, but to instead applaud, is staggering.

It's the contradictory nature of his speech, and the entire convention really, that stood out to me. The bit above is just tapping the surface. At one point, he blamed the rancor and negativity in Washington on politicians being more interested in themselves than the people they represent. What does that suggest about the previous two nights of gleeful derision, and the people who took part - including his own running mate?

The theme of government reform, coupled with the support of traditional Republican ideology, made little sense. McCain essentially told us he wants to get rid of himself, and those who support him.

Oh, and he was a POW.

Re: Last Night

Reality Man — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:44:33 -0000

The speech reminded me why I respect a lot about McCain and don't hate him (while I do hate Bush). With that said, the speech just made me feel sorry for him. He just seemed so desperate. He looked disappointed in himself after he finished the speech. It sounded like he was begging us to believe him that he was presidential instead of just showing and projecting it like Obama did. He seemed to have the zest for life and confidence just sucked right out of him. It's gotta suck to be overshadowed by your nearly anonymous VP. McCain looked like the guy a girl dated back in high school who is begging her for a second chance after college.

"Furthermore, they have known this woman as of Thursday for SIX days!! Everybody thinks after her speech that she was a good gamble, that she is the Republican answer to Obama. Give me a break! It's like falling in love with some incredibly handsome, charismatic stranger, and then getting married to him within in a week. What's the average rate of success of such marriages?"

Good point. The campaign grind took a little of the luster off of Obama, but he's still stuck around and very popular. Nobody knows if that can happen with Palin, especially considering she doesn't seem the curious and intelligent about foreign policy or able to reach compromises on economic or social issues.

Re: Last Night

MoeLarryAndJesus — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:34:32 -0000

Roger Tompkins writes: "GWB blew all the GOP political chips, now McCain wants to double the pot with an IOU. Like Wimpy, "I will gladly pay you next week for a hamburger today"."

McCain issued an occasional grouse against Dumbya and the drunken-sailor spending of the GOP Congress, but it was all for show. He also boasted quite loudly about how hard he worked to get Dumbya re-elected, and he kept his whistle in his pocket during the swiftboating of John Kerry, a man that was supposedly his friend. He does not deserve the benefit of any doubt.

Re: Last Night

Roger Tompkins — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:45:37 -0000

1. McCain has been around long enough that we've all seen him actually laughing, a lot. Hence, making a laughy face while reading a badly scripted laugh line he doesn't think is funny is really creepy. "Okay Senator, deliver the line, pause, smile, wait for applause"

2. I thought GWB had brought presidential oratory to it's lowest point. Why does a man that I've heard carrying on intelligent public conversations disengage his mind when he's supposed to be speaking to win support? Does he sound that bad on the Senate floor?

3.GWB blew all the GOP political chips, now McCain wants to double the pot with an IOU. Like Wimpy, "I will gladly pay you next week for a hamburger today".

Re: Last Night

MoeLarryAndJesus — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:09:44 -0000

Mikel writes: "The John McCain we saw last night actually seems like a decent candidate, provided you disassociate him from the right wing religious freakos he's surrounded himself with in the effort to get elected."

Exactly. And the way he's been sucking up to those ignorant, revolting fools for the past several years. When he went to Bob Jones University and made himself their bitch he eliminated himself from consideration.

Re: Last Night

Mikel — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:04:42 -0000

What I saw of the speech was kind of boring, but it was about what I expected. He did however come off far more likeable than the rest of the clowns who spoke this week.

The John McCain we saw last night actually seems like a decent candidate, provided you disassociate him from the right wing religious freakos he's surrounded himself with in the effort to get elected.

I could live with John McCain being president if that was truly the man we were going to get, but I doubt that to be the case. He's just too much in bed with the far right (and Bush's policies) to not do things their way, and their way, frankly scares the bejeezus out of me.

I did learn one thing though, and I think if he had actually made this known sooner, it might have been a good selling point in this election. John McCain was a P.O.W.

Thanks for letting us know this before election day:)

Re: Last Night

Michael — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:41:00 -0000

The best word I can think of is "schizophrenic" to describe the performance: It wasn't particularly coherent or visionary or revelatory, though he finished well (and despite yet more POW talk); it was definitely a speech looking back on a career, and not forward to one; it was the independent-minded Senator McCain talking to the base-driven Candidate McCain; it was incongruous and a bit sad, actually.

The speech per se (as a Convention speech, that is) didn't affect me as much as the guy who should have been candidate made me wish the present reality were different. But it's of his own doing, so it's time to move on.

Re: Last Night

Deborah — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:29:07 -0000

The Plank solves the mystery! That verdant lawn is in front of the Walter Reed Middle School in North Hollywood, California. Very symbolic.

Probably they were aiming for the Walter Reed Medical Center and missed, winding up in Hollywood by mistake.

Re: Last Night

cnnr — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:56:41 -0000

oops, lots of typos in that last post.

Re: Last Night

cnnr — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:55:06 -0000

I thought the biggest mistake of this entire convention for McCain was making it about Palin. His tired speech at the end suggests to me that in his gut, he knows it too. People forgot about him for hours at a time every day during this convention and talked about her and her more speeches about her than they did about McCain. That's not good for the guy at the top of the ticket.

Furthermore, they have known this woman as of Thursday for SIX days!! Everybody thinks after her speech that she was a good gamble, that she is the Republican answer to Obama. Give me a break! It's like falling in love with some incredibly handsome, charismatic stranger, and then getting married to him within in a week. What's the average rate of success of such marriages?

Secretly, these people get the attraction of Obama and they wanna be in love too. Palin represents desperation and desire, but the desire for her in particular -- it's for an Obama. So she's brought out, and they latch on desperately.

Only there's a difference between genuinely being in love and a superficial crush.

I think the Democrats are truly foolish to go on the defensive over her.

Re: Last Night

Guest — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:47:57 -0000

McCain delivered a speech that can be admired from a "trying to raise the ghost of Goldwater" way, which was so at odds with the realities of the party in which he currently resides, that is was doomed for failure. While effectively disavowing the last eight years of Bush/Cheney showed a great deal of integrity, one only needs to view the tepid reactions of the people in the convention hall and the pundits to know the truth: For better or worse, this is Sarah Palin's ticket now. All the coded speech about God and Gays and Abortion in the world can't change that. This is a party which is truly divorced from it's ideals. Slowly becoming more insular and almost entirely equipped to fight a culture war and to do nothing else. Had McCain beat Bush in 2000, who knows what the Republican party looks like today.

Re: Last Night

MoeLarryAndJesus — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:47:07 -0000

zic writes: "McCain told us he's seen evil; he also told us that conservatives have failed -- they were elected to change washington and washington changed them.

But he failed to connect the two. His plea, at the end, was heartfelt. His promise of better, more transparent government heartfelt. But it wasn't enough, not after what we've been through."

Right, not even close. And when you compare his rhetoric to the cretins and goons he chooses to surround himself with, you can bet that his promises are a load of crap. Gutter-level political animals like Phil Gramm and Joe Lieberman are going to be "agents of change"? Really?

If he wins his administration will resemble the Bushpigs - but even whiter and further to the right.

Re: Last Night

Whitey — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:42:35 -0000

I have a lot of trouble thinking like a Republican or an undecided voter, but that said, I was pretty unimpressed. The whole thing seemed to depend on the standard anti-progressive talking points and distortions of the Democratic agenda.

For example, McCain claimed that Obama's health plan would put a government bureaucrat between them and their doctors. Obviously, this is a blatant distortion, as a system of universal private health care doesn't really have government bureaucrats directly involved. Also, while that line of attack might play in the friendly confines of the RNC, but a majority of Americans seems to be clearly in favor of a reform of our health care system. And in attacking (and distorting) Obama's plan, McCain didn't really offer any responsive plan of his own.

The health care example epitomizes what I picked up on in the speech as a whole; while McCain was willing to attack Democratic policy proposals, he provided little policy substance of his own to counter the Democratic proposals. Maybe it will work, but painting the Democratic agenda as a socialist one strikes me as old hat, worn out by years of overuse. While towards the end he certainly tacked towards the middle, in doing so he wasn't talking about policy so much as government at large. Overall, he followed the lead of the convention at large by failing to offer the red-meat policy proposals that the Democrats did, while offering something somewhat incongruous with the RNC as a whole with his message of bipartisanship after a few days of base-vamping.

Re: Last Night

Charles — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:38:37 -0000

The speech itself, if read the next day or delivered, a la those Geico ads, by someone with better public speaking skills, was actually pretty decent (and I say this as an 8+ year Obama supporter). But the delivery of most of it was pretty awful. He kept tripping on words, had some troubles with the teleprompter, and just seemed to be lacking energy most of the night. It picked up toward the end when he started talking about his bio and the - suddenly - he had a lot of energy in the last minute. But you could tell that the crowd was not in it. Yeah, they would clap and such at the appropriate places, but in other crowd shots you could see that the audience was actually bored. They literally showed a 20-something year old guy yawning. In all likelihood, McCain's lack of energy and the lack of energy in the room turned into a vicious circle.

My co-workers said that they thought it was a good speech directed at moderates. I say that all the moderates turned to something else long before McCain made the sale. We'll know when the ratings numbers come out, but I expect it to be no more than 2/3 of Palin's ratings.

Re: Last Night

DaveinHackensack — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:22:18 -0000

Tap Estes,

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary too, but what was conservative about telling people that if your job gets outsourced the government will re-train you for jobs that "won't go away"? Bush 43 has demonstrated the limits of this approach. For all of his big spending on education (NCLB), health care (Medicare Part D), etc., he got little political benefit. Voters always know that whatever social spending the GOP offers them, the Dems can always offer more. We can't have two mommy parties.

That said, I'm still going to vote for McCain. If he gets elected, there's at least a chance he'll try to reign in entitlement spending as president, and his background suggests he might be able to make the necessary compromises with Dems to do that. With Obama and Dems in charge of the House and Senate, there's virtually no chance of that.

Re: Last Night

Deborah — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:19:36 -0000

Estes: I voted for McCain in 2000. I loved him this December when he was booed for simply, in clear language, laying out why we should not torture--he became the only Republican I'd vote for this time around. Then he flipped on even that position, and he lost me. Add in flipping on the Bush tax cuts, and a bunch of other flips this year to woo the base, and I'm not convinced he still believes all those things I used to admire. The speech lacked the specifics of mavericking now, rather than how 10 years ago he was a maverick, or how a maverick goes about leading people forward, rather than critiquing from the wings.

Re: Last Night

zilifant — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:09:41 -0000

It was a rambling, occasionally mildly moving funeral eulogy for a man called John McCain, delivered by someone who, by a strange coincidence, shared the same name as the deceased.

Re: Last Night

Tap Estes — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:02:24 -0000

My opinion is a dissenting one, which tells me I'm either a) on a liberal blog or b) dead wrong. Strong chance of both. Anywho, this speech, though clearly not delivered by the best orator, was from the McCain I remember. The one I voted for in the 2000 primaries (when he lost, my wife received my vote in the general rather than Bush. She made another good run in 2004, again stealing at least one vote from Bush). The speech laid out the conservative (rather than the Republican) agenda. His votes and statements over the last year or so have certainly weakened his position as the Maverick (the torture vote broke my heart), but my hope, foolish though it may be, is that he has been biding his time for this moment and that this speech was a declaration of who he is and how he intends to govern (if I can get ahead of the punchline, clearly some think that, after this speech, he intends to govern in the most boring manner possible). At any rate it seemed to be a brave speech. One in which, rather than pandering to the crowd, he stood on the principals he's been advertising for the last twenty of so years. It, of course, could be called pandering to the television audience by the cynical. That's fair enough - perhaps he was. When it comes down to receiving my vote, there are a couple questions I ask myself. Do I agree with this person's policy positions? If so, do I believe this person has the means of keeping his promises? If so, does this person have the intention of keeping his promises? I, perhaps, naively, can answer in the affirmative for both Obama and McCain on the later two questions. But on the first, it's McCain and McCain only. But, hey, I'm a moderate conservative, what do I know...

Re: Last Night

Deborah — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:55:16 -0000

Two thoughts (disclaimer that without tv I watch snippets online):

In one brilliant background they combined reminders of the dreaded green screen, the idea of old man McCain saying "Get off my lawn you damn kids," and so-rich-he-can't-remember McCain in front of a large random house (is it one of his?). I modestly admit I couldn't have come up with a background that reinforced 3 negative memes about the candidate that well.

I think it's entirely possible that McCain will run a campaign against the GOP appealing to independents and undecideds at townhallish venues while Palin runs a campaign against Washington and the liberal coastal (Mitt!) and cosmopolitan (Rudy!) elites with barnburner speeches in front of cheering crowds of social conservatives. That they are on the same ticket and running on the same platform will seem an accident.

Sunday talk shows: Again Obama, Biden, McCain. Palin will do high-energy speeches with no questions and McCain will field intimate interviewing and townhalling.

Re: Last Night

Shawn — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:51:56 -0000

Matt,

While "uppity" can mean that, I always took it to specially reserved for black people who dare to do other than bow their heads and "yes sir/ma'am" when dealing with white people.

Re: Last Night

Eliot — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:42:22 -0000

I never saw the appeal of John McCain in the first place, so it's difficult for me to know how it played with the masses. But, I thought sharing his first hand account of Pearl Harbor just made him seem old. The section on the economy was uninspired. My favorite part of the speech was the moron waiving the "Mavrick" [sic] sign. See my full take here: http://www.theeliotinside.com/2008/09/mccains-speech.html

Re: Last Night

treebeard — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:35:40 -0000

Funniest line from McCain' speech:

"Gov. Palin has worked with her hands and nose."

The problem was in the phrasing. There was supposed to be a pause after "hands." So he repeated the word, making it clear he meant "knows."

Re: Last Night

Breukelyne — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:34:56 -0000

Ooops typo in my post:

I meant to say " "I realized my foolish youthful pride that I COULDN'T stand alone."

From the Republicans I knew growing up, there is this counter-strain of thinking to the idea of individualism. And that is this judgemental "I was foolish to think I was anything without God and Country."

Democrats say we need each other. We need better government for the people.

Republicans say we need God and Country. We need less government, more patriotism.

Re: Last Night

Breukelyne — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:30:10 -0000

I think McCain's story about being a prisoner in Hanoi was very moving. Cynicism aside, as an Obama supporter, I still think that.

There was a lot in the telling of it to strike all the emotional chords that Republicans deeply cherish and take pride in. There is a sort of almost religiously toned "I realized my foolish youthful pride that I could stand alone. We are nothing without country, God, fellow veterans, fighting for our beautiful nation America" that I have heard from my Republican dad and other war veterans of my dad's generation that I heard echoed in McCain's speech at the end.

My take is that the Republican base generally found something to like about John McCain last night. Identification is very powerful, and at least for war veterans, "I am one of you. I know what it's like" is powerful stuff. Plus the Republicans are very skilled at closing ranks when it comes down to it -- better than the Democrats are, might I add.

I didn't see the rest of the speech so I can't comment. As others have said, you need the Independents to win. I don't know if the speech offered them anything THEY were looking for, but I'm sure the base was emotionally moved last night.