The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

JT (Chicago) — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:10:18 -0000

Thanks Lynn. Like I said, I thought it was just marking territory.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Doctor Jay — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:46:25 -0000

"Hilpatine" ???! Seriously? Wow, she's got in your head, hasn't she? I mean, you just can't stop thinking about her, so it seems.

I voted for her in the primary because her views on healthcare, gay marriage, and abortion fit my own better. And because I knew from her history that her commitment to these issues wasn't "politician speak". She meant it. I support Obama and I will vote for him, but I don't think I was wrong about that.

I also supported Hillary because I thought she would be better at taking Republican crap and making them eat it. Getting inside their heads and making it explode. I was wrong about that. Obama seems to be doing a fine job of it. Good for him.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Asher — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:01:25 -0000

He owes the Clintons (DNC chair, et al.), but, for example, he strongly supported John Street, an African American, to replace him as Philly mayor.

Didn't do us Philadelphians any favors with that one. But hey, at least it gives him non-racist cred.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

jay — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:28:54 -0000

Sporcupine,

Love the idea of forever mentors. Do you coin the term?

Deborah,

I agree. I think Rendell was in catharsis mode and the voters via Pain, have already moved to Obama.

Obama will owe The People & the public officials who came out early and took some risk and also Richardson and the DNC dude from Indiana. Oh and that black woman in York, PA who had never voted but registered over 1400 people with a full-time job.

He will not owe MOST members of Congress or MOST of the civil rights establishment. And as for Jesse's latest--let's just say that dude is a HATER on a higher level. He is literally, Ladies & Gentleman, literally trying to DESTROY Obama's prospects. What is wrong with him? & his son is often off message with that fake-assed preacherly cadence.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

big bad wolf — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:28:19 -0000

i think this is called Rhetoric. Rhetoric is a persuasive tool. if what it takes to get some hillary primary voters to vote for obama is to hear how terrific hillary was, and therefore how tremendous they were for supporting hillary, then i say let's hear it, governor rendell. rendell is a very smart pol, who knows there are different ways of reaching different voters and that having your side win is the goal. let's try to keep that in mind. can we win first and then, when obama is president, those of us on the left blogs can go back to tearing our side apart.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Deborah — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:56:55 -0000

@sv: Clinton on the bench seems to be a recurrent meme, but I'm not sure if it has any currency from those high up (e.g. Rendell) rather than internet folk casting about for a nice role for Clinton. Certainly she doesn't seem to have been musing on it--that is, I don't think this is being leaked out by McAulliffe et al.

For myself, I'd be very leery of appointing someone who has not been a judge and doesn't seem to have a record on Constitutional Law. But Clinton is smart and thorough and a demon for detail, so maybe it would work. It does seem, though, that she'd be a divisive appointee, so I'm not sure Obama would want to spend political capital getting her through, rather than economic plans and foreign policy redeployment.

I think, like Ted Kennedy, Clinton could reposition herself in a "the Senate is where I'll leave my legacy" mindframe and do good things.

As to the original topic, I'm convinced that Ed was trying to be nice to Clinton and perhaps misreading his voters, thinking they needed to be stepped through the catharsis and closure stuff again while they thought "Fool, we got over it in August." Nothing to see here...

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Adam — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:20:39 -0000

Isn't Rendell sort of correct? McCain co-opted HRC's idea about HOLC, which she got from FDR. Obama co-opted HRC's idea about how to help banks by making the people holders of equity in them. So far, all the economic ideas embraced by the two men running for president are the ideas of a woman who was pushed aside. So, yeah, she'll be the one left standing in support of us. With Obama's Family, Faith and Values Tour opposing gay marriage, his statement that he supports the death penalty, his FISA vote, his support for kicking Black Cherokees out of the Cherokee Nation, I am not seeing a progressive candidate on the ticket. I don't care about Ayers, Wright, all that junk. But I do want someone who supports the rights of minorities and if you look at Obama, he's not the One.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Lynn — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:37:57 -0000

JT --

There may be somewhat of a rivalry between Rendell & Casey, but I don't think it's anything significant/bitter/ugly. Rendell, after all, helped clear the path for Casey to run for Senate against Santorum (by persuading/arm-twisting a pro-choice candidate out of running in the Dem primary, to help ensure a Casey win -- Casey is pro-life). There's an east state - west state thing; Rendell is strong in the East (which, ironically, is more Obama territory); Casey strong in the West (which went more solidly for Hillary).

I've voted for Rendell every time I've had the opportunity -- I don't think he's a bad guy or a racist. He's a bit Biden-esque, in the sense that he doesn't have much of a filter on what he says. He just blurts it out. He owes the Clintons (DNC chair, et al.), but, for example, he strongly supported John Street, an African American, to replace him as Philly mayor.

Who knows. He annoyed me during the primary (as did Michael Nutter, the african american Philly mayor, who also supported Hillary) & has annoyed me some since -- but I don't think he's particularly "angry" now & I have no doubt he wants an Obama win.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Thomas R — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 03:41:42 -0000

The idea less-educated whites wouldn't vote for Obama seemed pretty reasonable and supported by the evidence. In facts whites with less than a college degree still favor McCain by a fair margin according by Gallup.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108046/Candidate-Support-Education-Among-Whites.aspx

However I think some may not have adjusted to a changing situation. Whites, particularly white men, without a college education are a much less significant group than in times of yore. America is increasingly Hispanic, Asian, and/or college-educated. Obama seems set to do much better with Hispanics and college-educated whites than Kerry did. Possibly better with Asians too although polls on that are a little more uncertain due to sample size. Anyway that's probably going to be enough even if he ends up doing only slightly, or no, better than Kerry with whites who never graduated from college.

Even in 1996 I think the dynamic may have been somewhat different. And the Clinton people seem to be stuck in the Clinton-era to some degree.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

anna perez — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:57:29 -0000

I don't care what Ed Rendell says as long as it helps bring his fellow bubba's along to vote for Obama. Maybe this is what they need to hear--to know that Hillary is a part of this hopefully big win. The Clinton's lost, end of story (at least for now)lets get busy and keep busy until Nov. 5.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Katie — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:41:51 -0000

I tip my hat to Ed Rendell. He is dead on accurate. Hillary Clinton was amazing and she kicked ass in the Pennsylvania Primary. I flew there from California to help out, and it was awe inspiring. Thank you Ed for acknowledging Hillary Clinton once again.SHE DESERVES THE RECOGNITION.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

JT (Chicago) — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:27:37 -0000

Keystone State residents please correct me if I'm wrong but my perception is that there's a lot of local rivalry between the Caseys (father & son) and Rendell played out against the backdrop of national politics (Bill Clinton and now Sen. Obama). So some of Rendell's hype of HRC is also to let the local folks know that he's still the kingmaker at home even though Casey will probably be close to Obama's ear.

A little marking of territory in which HRC might have been splashed by the Gov Ed's stream.

You can add your Monty Python reference here.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Asher — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 00:50:26 -0000

I don't know what you're talking about. Ed (who by the way was a fine mayor of Philly and is a good governor) says some complimentary things about Hillary, and to you this is some sort of apostasy. And then you ramble on about race and the world changing under the old guard's feet, and what have you. Even if there were some implicit slight to Obama in his comments about Hillary, what does that have to do with some outmoded theory of racially polarized voting? Maybe he just personally likes Hillary and doesn't care for Obama. The Clintons did, you know, install him as chair of the DNC after his time as mayor was up.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Nathan — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:53:49 -0000

TNC, WTF are you doing? We're in the home stretch, Obama has one last BIG test with tomorrows debate with McCain, he's got momentum - and you want to rip Hillary and company once more and give a voice to all of the lefty fruit loops still hung up on Bill and Hill. Just fucking drop it. Bill and Hillary are out there campaigning, hard and effectively I might add. And - Don't fall for every dim-witted post on Andrew Sullivans blog - Hillary Clinton WILL NOT be on the supreme court. She's not qualified and she certainly doesn't want it. She'll be going after Harry Reid's job, not JP Stevens'. And one last time, if you voted for Nader in 2000, don't wear yourself out patting yourself on the back 'cause you wear an Obama pin - you still fucked this country and put Bush in office and you're still an idiot - and Cristopher Hitchins is still a douche-bag!. Go Obama! And go Clintons helping Obama get elected! Three more weeks, bitch!

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Sporcupine — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 20:45:57 -0000

Rendell is acting like a forever-mentor, a special variety of white nonsense.

Forever-mentors are powerful people who have exerted big energy over many years to recognize talent and open doors for younger people from diverse backgrounds. They really have made some important things happen. They have helped real talent move much closer to its real potential.

Forever-mentors have understood all along that some of their proteges would someday hold top positions.

Someday.

That's the rub.

Forever-mentors have been expecting forever-gratitude.

They never imagined that they themselves would face a winning non-white challenger.

You can't spot a forever-mentor until the challenge comes, and then there's no mistaking their rage.

We've had more than one helping of their volcanic insanity this year, and I suspect we'll see a good bit more of it over the next few decades.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Lynn — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:02:12 -0000

As a Pa. resident and an Obama supporter, Rendell has, indeed, been often off-message & downright annoying at times. Same with my mayor, Michael Nutter. I have to say, I don't quite get it.

Rendell has, however, been doing the tour duty & making robocalls for Obama rallies, etc., etc., to help the cause. He's just... Rendell. More than anything, he probably just can't stop patting himself on the back for helping Hillary win Pa. in the primaries, I guess.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

sv — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:42:51 -0000

also - what do people think of this continued talk of a president obama nominating hillary to the supreme court? are a lot of clintonites expecting that? is there good reason, other than the continued expectation of more appeasement from obama that some clintonites seem to want, to do this? i.e. would she make a good supreme court justice? i'm not even close to being a lawyer so i can't really say, but i imagine there will be a number of available and better-qualified candidates (although i don't doubt that she would bring great effort to the job).

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

sv — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:38:52 -0000

no big deal. some people do in fact still really love the clintons the way some people now love obama. i think that it's a side effect of the primaries having gotten so very heated - it's hard for people to just let go of all those passions, they look fondly upon their hurrah-for-hillary feelings, which were tied to their no-to-the-republicans feelings as voters. as long as rendell is faithfully getting out the vote for BO in PA, i'm fine with it. i like the clintons and obama both.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Tessa — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:14:27 -0000

I've been skeptical about the motives of the Clintons and her surrogates, Rendell included, for quite awhile now. A few weeks ago I might have analyzed this statement: "I have never seen a seven-week campaign catch fire the way that campaign did," as a ploy to get everyone thinking about the possibility of another candidate doing something similar in the remaning three weeks...and letting the press take it from there. But that just doesn't make perfect sense.

I'm not sure Ta-Nehisi's analysis adds up neatly either. The truth is, I don't know what to think. My gut tells me something's up but I can't put my finger on it. That's what makes me so nervous. And I think that's why the people in the crowd at this rally remained silent. Something stinks but they don't where it's coming from.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Michael Foody — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:52:28 -0000

What I think they would say, and I think this is at least partially true, is that the economic collapse and to a lesser extent the Palin pick are behind Obama's success more than anything native to Obama himself. If Hillary was there it would be a different game but the economy would still be in the tank and Hillary might be winning by even more than Obama is. She was a really good candidate.

Keep in mind Obama would almost certainly be the second pick on the Hillary ticket so a lot of the energy and new voters and organization would still be around. It would be a different race, but the external factors, the economy, the Bush disaster, these would remain constant and the dems would still have everything working for them.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:23:02 -0000

Mike,

Your conflating Iowa with the rest of the election. I did not, indeed, think Obama could win largely white states before Iowa. But I was wrong, and have doubted the kid (on that point) since. With that in mind, I'm not sure what your question is. I addressed the Iowa thing very directly on the bloggingheads video.

"I hope you'll do a post on what you suspect you might feel when Obama wins,"

That is about 30 percent of this blog, sadly.

"and then, after he does, one about how you actually feel."

No, I think I'll just stop talking about it.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

Mike in the Mountain West — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:11:34 -0000

TNC,

You asked what are these guys going to do when Obama gets more white votes than Kerry, but the more important question is what are you going to do?

I remember from your bloggingheads discussion with McWhorter you said you were surprised when Obama won white Iowa and still hadn't totally come to grips with it (correct me if I'm wrong with the paraphrase). Well, what do you think now that it looks like a black candidate might do better than previous white candidates did with white folk?

I hope you'll do a post on what you suspect you might feel when Obama wins, and then, after he does, one about how you actually feel.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

TKOEd — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:09:28 -0000

totally agree with rikyrah.

your point about Obama's favors is so dead on.

that's what people like Brooks don't get. Brooks is all rambling about Obama not being able to stand up to liberal dems in congress. 1st of all Obama probably agrees with a lot of what they will want to do but more important is that Obama will be calling the shots. He doesn't really owe anyone anything not the Clintons & not anyone in congress. His campaign pretty much will have done it on their own if & when they do it.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

John Henry — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:09:00 -0000

"A central tenet to the argument against Obama was that he was this effete liberal who could only get the votes of blacks and the over-educated (Paul Begala's "African-Americans and Eggheads" assertion). Back then it was thought that Obama would have trouble with Jews, Latinos and white people who didn't go to Harvard. Whatever happens over the next few weeks, that claim now looks ridiculous."

It looked ridiculous then. What about Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Virginia, North Carolina?!?!

I saw no difference between Hillary's campaign tactics and the Republicans. They make what they think is their best argument. They dont necessarily believe it. They don't care if it makes much sense as long as you believe it and it gets you to vote for them.

Re: Is Ed Rendell still pissed?

rikyrah — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:49:03 -0000

a whole lotta folks want Barack Obama to lose.

You want names?

Come on, you know the names.

A whole lotta folks hitched themselves to Hillpatine.

And, Obama, IF he actually makes it to the White House, will owe fewer favors to the 'usual suspects' than anyone in recent history.

That's terrifying to a lot of people. Period.

Obama's 4 million donor list terrifies a lot of folks.

He's done what people said couldn't be done. What some folks mocked at when he began his campaign.

Some folks Obama MUST return their phone calls. Rendell knows, after November, he's not one of them. And, he's not alone.