The Atlantic - Latest Comments in In case anyone was wondering

Re: In case anyone was wondering

carlos — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:57:28 -0000

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Re: In case anyone was wondering

MikeCee — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:49:02 -0000

Man, really wish I didn't drop that last and then take off to NYC in the car with the fam.

Did not mean to insinuate that anything specific had happened here. My point was exactly as Doug picked up on. Unless we are independently wealthy or self-employed we have bosses and they have expectations. You did a talking heads a while back with the blogger who got randomly shot in DC. One of his opening statements was in regards to his personal pleasure of being able to blog without corporate taskmasters and the pressure that goes along with that.

In regards to Matt, Third Way did in fact reach into his blog. But my non-personal question remains. Is what Matt is doing blogging if Third Way can reach in the way it did? Is blogging's original purity being tainted by corporate mulah?

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Doug — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:46:00 -0000

Having worked in the media and written opinion pieces that have resulted in angry phone calls from people accusing me of being the owner’s lapdog (never happened in more than a decade), it is something bloggers on more traditional media sites are going to have to live with. It’s the great conspiracy theory that the media is all liberal bias, right wing hacks, or whoever you disagre with or blame for all the problems.

As for my own work experience (in the mainstream media), what resulted in a change of employment wasn’t anything that was published. It was telling the manager about his level of incompetence that resulted in a career change. Integrity isn’t just about writing what you believe, but living it. If The Atlantic started pressuring its writers about their topics and opinions, I’d be disappointed. It would also result in me and many others likely start reading the current lineup somewhere else.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:46:23 -0000

"Whether you work for The Atlantic, or another media (including the dreaded mainstream media), there is likely something that you cannot write about without risking your job."

I just want you to tell me what that might be. Not to be obstinant, we're obviously always subject to some higher force. But when I had my own blog, I used Typepad. I doubt I could have, say, threatened the president with death from there. Or posted child-porn.

So we can agree that there are always things you can't do. That said, the real question what would you want to do that you can't? What do you think I'm being--or would be--prevented from saying?

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Doug — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:48:00 -0000

TNC:

The only way for you or any other writer to maintain complete independence is to run your own website. It means being responsible for the cost of that website, in addition to finding enough income for yourself and family. If you had a big trust fund that couldn’t be cut off or a very supportive spouse with a nice income, it might be easier. For more people, it is not an option to write as you do and make a living. Your readers are at an advantage with you writing for The Atlantic. You can concentrate on that job, instead of having to worry about how to pay for the website.

That doesn’t mean you are sell outs for working for another organization. Your blog is informative and entertaining, and gives this white, Canadian prairie boy a view of the world from a very different experience. Whether you work for The Atlantic, or another media (including the dreaded mainstream media), there is likely something that you cannot write about without risking your job. While there is no evidence of suppressing ideas of any of the bloggers on this site (one of the reasons I visit regularly), that doesn’t mean there is not a line that may eventually be crossed. It might be a comment you make that angers the bosses, or something they believe exposes the organization to too much risk. That might result in either you or them deciding you don’t want to be there anymore. That is the reality of the choices we make and have to live with.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Persia — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:06:13 -0000

Southpaw's got it. Someone complained, and CAP panicked. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it annoying and a little creepy? Probably. Is the resulting firestorm entertaining as hell? Oh yes.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

southpaw — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:32:02 -0000

It's so much more likely that these guys blundered, than it is that the long arms of Third Way reached into Matt's blog.

Uh, no.

I don't think it's too hard to figure out, once you know who Faiz Shakir is. Look:

Faiz Shakir Says:

#14, Third Way had requested a clarification and Jennifer agreed to their request. That’s why the specific post was put up.

December 22nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm

There you have it.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:27:14 -0000

"As Green pointed out above, lines exist for you that can't be crossed lest the masters of the house be displeased."

Right. Because having held a contest for spokesman of the Jews, defended homophobes, posted video of Jeff Ross calling Shaquille O'Neil an ape, called the president-elect bigoted in his position on gay marriage, blogged about Ice T and Souljah Boy, attacked Wynton Marsalis, debated with with Sullivan, McCardle and Douthat, it's clear I'm holding something back.

All jokes aside, if you're going to insinuate that these guys are keeping me from saying something, you really need to show your work. Otherwise, it's just "When did you stop beating your wife"-ism.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

mikecee — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:54:55 -0000

In thinking about this tonight I wonder is what Matt at CAP or you TNC or even Andrew (who was clearly put under direct pressure to stop his anti-Palin work) be really called "blogging" in the true spirit of the original thing.

When blogging first exploded it was 8 million individual opinions unhindered by connections to The Man. Now, most blogs we read are bought and paid for by corporate America. As Green pointed out above, lines exist for you that can't be crossed lest the masters of the house be displeased. Posts per day, words per post, links per post, plug the dead tree subscriptions, lets not offend our rich uncle and so on...

If a bloggers opinion isn't always his what do you then call that work?

Re: In case anyone was wondering

brent — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:26:44 -0000

Neither Matt's response of Shakir's is as direct in answering the open questions as I would like but its adequate and more than they even owe me after all. I am not paying them anything. However, I also don't think incompetence quite covers it. I mean that I don't think this could possibly be the first time that Matt wrote something that CAP disagrees with as a matter of its public policy position. So why this particular post? Of all the possible more reasonable methods of clarifying disagreement, why this particular method? If you are going to make a post like Palmieri's, why not even try to include some kind of substantive rebuttal? The only reason to do this is that they felt under pressure, even if it was indirect, to convince people at the Third Way that they actually like them. The Third way was the only party in this matter who could have possibly benefited from their "clarification" and the effect was obviously the opposite of benefit.

As you point out, there was no clarification needed in that space. Its hard for me to see how they initiate this particular solution, actually entering into the editorial space of one of their writers, without feeling a powerful need to assuage the concerns of Third Way. If that is the case, they should really just say so.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

MikeF — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:20:53 -0000

It would have been bad if the original post was censored or removed, but it wasn't. The official position of CAP was stated in a short post, by someone who didn't pretend to be Yglesias and didn't force him to retract his position. I think it's a real non-issue that was sloppily handled but ultimately harmless. Yglesias' commenters come across as very anal and self-important.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Carrington Ward — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:48:40 -0000

Never postulate a conspiracy when incompetence will suffice.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Green — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:46:02 -0000

lol. nah, I think that would be well within the lines- as long as it's all nude and tastefully done.

But please, no thongs.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

DougEMI — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:34:41 -0000

I don't see this as a huge deal, perhaps it shouldn't have been placed in his blog but elsewhere on the site. You have to do far more than this to be a liberal authoritarian, check out Open Left for some commentor bannings for an example of that. MY's blog allows for unregistered comments.

The point that stuck out to me is that the CEO of the place considers Third Way to be progressives, while Matt calls them moderates.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

The Foulness — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:27:20 -0000

It's not censorship, but co-opting someone's blog to make a post about them is weak sauce. Put it on your main page and ask the blogger to link to it.

But really - even without being censorship, it just shows that CAP is weak sauce all around.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

sgwhiteinfla — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:19:37 -0000

Ahem

Let me try this again.

Thinkprogress has a post up responding to all of the hoopla over the post on MY's blog. You can view it here.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/22/editorial-independence/

Coates I was wondering if you could weigh in on whether or not its bullshit.

Thanks in advance.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

shani-o — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:14:44 -0000

I don't read MY's blog religiously, but yikes. That was weird. Don't worry T, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the Atlantic Overlords start putting in "special notes" here.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

laborlibert — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:10:42 -0000

This is all a bit of silly drama isn't it? Something for bloggers to self-analyze over? It is funny watching everyone work themselves into a tizzy over it. Although not nearly as funny as the last blog-drama, Sullivan's unexplained three day absence during the Palin follies.

And enough Yglesias-hating. If you don't like his blog shoot him an email or say so in his comments section (read: "WHY DON'T YOU SAY IT TO HIS FACE BITCH!").

Re: In case anyone was wondering

MikeCee — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:03:13 -0000

I'm curious if she just jumped out on his blog without asking or worse without him knowing about it.

Emasculating.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Brien Jackson — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:58:35 -0000

I don't think that acknolwedging CAP isn't a media venture quite goes far enough, because what's more relevant is that CAP is an explicitly political venture. It's a think tank, a repository (the old line was that it was created to give Hillary's future administration something to do until 2008), and a political messaging outfit all rolled into one. That means it's going to be constrained by eplicitly political forces. And at the moment CAP is somewhat central in Democratic politics, as John Podesta heads up Obama's transition and many of the policy roles in the administration go to CAP alums. So CAP can't afford to create hard feelings with other aspects of the Democratic establishment anymore than a State Department official could go against the official US line on Country X without drawing some sort of rebuke. It doesn't mean it's "right," but that's just the way it is, and that's something that goes along with blogging on someone else's dime.

And apparently Matt put the post up himself, and feels that it amplifies his indepence. So who is anyone else to argue?

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:42:17 -0000

Yeah Green. I've been longing to post clips from some porn flicks I've directed, but I think "The Man" might fire me. "The Man" is always imposing limits on my creativity.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Doug — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:35:10 -0000

I'm not quite sure what the fuss is about, other than CAP trying to protect its relationship with Third Way. Matt's post was best left ignored by both groups; however, it is not censorship to allow someone who works for you to publicly disagree with your position and then point out the disagreement.

The Atlantic and other established media organizations probably don't have to make it clear about the independence of columnists and bloggers, but as someone who has worked in the media and written opionion pieces the public doesn't always differentiate. For CAP and ThinkProgress, it is probably even more difficult to have the public see that.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Persia — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:33:35 -0000

Has everyone read the special message from Jeffrey Golberg? Comic gold.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Green — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:28:09 -0000

Eh, that's what you get when you work for the man. Trust, you and Andrew are censorable here at the Atlantic. I don't know where that line is here, but trust that there is one, and if you guys cross it, you'll here about it. The response was a little tone deaf I suppose, but it's better than, say, a retract it yourself or be fired type of ultimatum. And who knows whether this backlash is ultimately worse than whatever would have come of the think tank war Palmieri was apparently trying to avert.

Re: In case anyone was wondering

Mark — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:23:29 -0000

Persia -

I agree with you completely. I just don't find myself reading Matt's stuff as much anymore.