The Atlantic - Latest Comments in I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

goethean — Fri, 15 May 2009 14:26:14 -0000

A good rule of thumb is that if the right-wing zombies say it, the opposite is likely to be true.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

DaveinHackensack — Fri, 15 May 2009 03:23:06 -0000

Maybe he hasn't mentioned it since because he founded out that it never existed. Not every horrible story you hear about U.S. troops ends up being true.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

muzz al atesta — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:11:20 -0000

if this specific case happened or not, war is the best we've got for hell on earth

i'm reading Bernd Greiner "War Without Fronts : The U.S. in Vietnam" right now and he went and dug up witness testimonies made to the armys own Criminal investigation Division about what happened in the villages Xom Lang, Binh Tay and My Lai on the 16th of march 1968, and i can assure there was plenty of rape, murder and shooting 2 year old kids in the head who are trying to crawl out of a ditch full of their dead relatives

war is hell

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

mary — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:55:22 -0000

im not talking about things that havent been done. im talking about things he's compromised, sacrificed, or completely reversed himself on.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

alkali — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:29:16 -0000

I assume that if you find yourself in wartorn Iraq and you happen upon Iraqi troops raping prisoners, the question isn't whether you should ask the teacher to make the bad kids stop misbehaving. I'm not saying anyone is getting a good conduct medal out of the situation, but I think we would need to have some more facts -- any facts -- before declaring that someone on the scene other than the perpetrators is the functional equivalent of a rapist.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Joel — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:40:05 -0000

Considering the atrocities committed against civilians and prisoners in every war since the beginning of humanity, I'm sure things worse than this have gone on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This was my fundamental objection to getting involved in this war to begin with, and I assume many others. How quickly people forget the atrocities implicit in warfare, especially those who never bothered to care in the first place.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Joel — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:38:06 -0000

This is true, but the direct perpetrator is irrelevant, since all the enablers present are also - by accessory, and rightly so - guilty of rape.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

bread & roses — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:26:04 -0000

I'm not giving Obama the benefit of the doubt, either, but I don't think it's useful to call him Bush 2.0. He's failing to uphold the constitution, he's appeasing people in power, and I think we should holler as loud as we want when he does wrong- but there are a lot of ways to run the country wrong. Bush was just one of them. I think thinking of him as "on our side" or "not on our side" is just not useful. We can't know his heart. All we can see are his actions. Are they smart, right, good policy? Are they craven, illegal, timid? We don't have to have an "Obama: Good or Bad?" question. It's not useful.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

mary — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:26:02 -0000

wait, give him a year to change his positions back to the ones he campaigned on instead of the ones he followed bush on and some even more so? wut?

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

bread & roses — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:14:23 -0000

I must not have been very clear- I want the tape out there, too. I'm opposed to secrecy.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

awalker — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:09:05 -0000

If this particular instance is true, I surely wouldn't be surprised.

Considering the atrocities committed against civilians and prisoners in every war since the beginning of humanity, I'm sure things worse than this have gone on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I wonder if the types of soldiers who do these things are preconditioned to this type behaviour or if it is learned or a reaction to war/occupation?

That would be an interesting study.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Dwood — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:59:37 -0000

War.

I certainly hope it isn't true.

We, many of us, would like to think of how we or any other numbers of us, regardless of the circumstances, would act. However, what I've seen (I'm a psychotherapist this past 28 years) is that the human entity, under the proverbial "right" circumstances, is pretty capable of being VERY inhuman and inhumane.

I, still now, see Vietnam Vets with PTSD. What they saw......What they did.....

These are circumstances of war. But, pedophiles in America do thereabouts daily. For all the wonder and beauty of this world, there is, also, very UGLY/HEINOUS.

I wrote yesterday re: TNC's quoting Morehouse's president and his bold commentary to the "straight" men of Morehouse and their needed behavior change toward their gay bretheren. Pointed out that this, actually, was a first for the president of the institution. And, even at that, this president has been in that position for two years.

Mary, hearing what you are saying, but the "long view" is just that. Long. There are any number of things that he hasn't done or have been set into motion that, as time passes, we will see how it turns out.

But, at least to me, to determine in less, now, than 150 days that this guy is Bush 2.0 whom we saw for eight years and, amongst other things, to allege cowardice is, perhaps, a bit much.

Again, that's me, though.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Bruce — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:29:58 -0000

you make interesting points...however...the obama administration has only yet begun...it's fickin' may...bush had 8 years...give him atleast a year...

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

timdillon — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:20:17 -0000

Hersh has been interviewed since that and broke the "Cheney assasination squad" bit of lovliness but hasn't mentioned the tape since. Doesn't seem like a guy who gets scared to easily. I still think he knows things that would keep most of us awake at night.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Linoleum Blownaparte — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:15:40 -0000

This is the digital age a military bureaucracy. If it was filmed, I find it exceedingly likely that it currently exists in any number of hard drives.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

mary — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:12:32 -0000

no, im not attacking his religion or community organizing. i wish he stayed longer in community organizing, as my friends are still toiling in the trenches doing what he only did for 3 years. i dont begrudge him of having political ambitions, which is why i made the point about community organizing and becoming religious (which i secretly think and hope he's not).

the thing is obama's actions on civil liberties have gone beyond what Bush has done, especially with regard to state secrets. And his decisions to withhold the photos from the public record is a 180 degree turn from what the 2nd circuit ordered and might i say against his own FOIA guidelines. Now he's weighing "indefinite detention" for the detainees under military commissions which he once ruled out. And what about the HIV needle policy? He's ignoring it. He's ignoring a lot of AIDS issues. He scrubbed his promise to repeal DOMA from his website yesterday. He's revised his promise on DADT and other gay issues on his website in the last month. Now he's changed his mind on abstinence funding and is now providing it when it's clear it does not work. He's slowly being coopted by the neocons in the Afghan war when even Petraeus says Al-Qaida is in pakistan, not Afghanistan. And he hires an egregious torture apologist and pat-tillman cover-up guy to replace McKiernen.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

alkali — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:08:21 -0000

I think the specific claim that was made is that Iraqi troops were doing this and it was videotaped by one or more US troops. Still shocking but less incredible.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Bruce — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:04:22 -0000

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11719/

ok...i overreacted..badly...can't say that you're making much sence though...sounds like the standard attackline...community organizing, attacking his religion, comparision to bush...are we on repeat today?

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

mary — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:53:07 -0000

that says even more about his "pragmatism"

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

mary — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:51:51 -0000

unfortunately obama prizes security over civil liberties. that will never happen. as much as i like the guy personally, he's just Bush 2.0, a younger, smarter, more attractive, more charming version of the old Bush with 3 years of community organizing on hand to back up his credentials as the so called "man of the people". why did he give up so early, while others are still in the trenches? because it was a political stepping stone. and his religiosity seems to coincide with the beginning of his political career hmmm... should i be so cynical? if the last 8 years taught us anything it's to stop giving our politicians the benefit of the doubt. we're doing what bush did with Putin, look into his eyes and think he's on our side. Everyday that goes by, we see it's not the case.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Persia — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:49:24 -0000

Just saying: I enjoy Obama's speeches, but they're not really that bold.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

mary — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:45:16 -0000

When will Obama be as bold as his speeches? Has "pragmatism" become a substitute for cowardice? has "the long view" become a substitute for dragging his feet on politically charged issues? When i ask you? WHEN??

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:39:02 -0000

Meh, I was got. Reader shipped it my way, and I went batshit. Still. It makes you wonder. Whatever happened to that alleged tape...

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

Persia — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:38:22 -0000

Keep in mind that a jury just convicted a US Soldier of engineering the gang rape of a 13-year-old and then shooting her in the face. Numbers 1 and 2 seem really plausible. Number 4 gives me a little faith in humanity, honestly. 3's the only one that's giving me pause.

Re: I Really Hope Seymour Hersh Is Wrong

zaleriana — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:34:55 -0000

Do note that the link is from almost 5 years ago. I would suspect that, if that video existed, it was among the many destroyed by the CIA.