The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Gay Marriage And The District

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

wdcrachel — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:32:48 -0000

Isn't the bigger point that because DC's budget is contingent on congressional approval, it is unlikely that a gay marriage bill in the District could stand up to congressional power? Perhaps, even, like the Supreme Court gun case, creating a larger precedent against gay marriage. That being said, nationally, the wind seems to be changing.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

baltogeek — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:40:36 -0000

This is particularly appealing to the Rove wing of the GOP, because they can use black homophobia as a wedge issue. DC is a perfect place to pit gays and straight, religious African-Americans, and we know that Republicanism as it has evolved under Rove is almost defined by finding groups of Americans to pit against each other.

Funny, he says this considering the quote above is an accurate description of the hate filled posts he wrote about "black homophobia" in the days after Prop 8.

It's useful idiots like Andrew who give Rove and his strategies legitimacy and make it infinitely harder for black GLBT folk to make any progress.

How Andrew feels he has any credibility on this issue after the racist screeds he unleashed is amazing.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

rikyrah — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:36:12 -0000

I read Sullivan on a regular basis, but he doesn't remotely understand Black people, period. I nearly stopped after he tried to scapegoat Black folk for the failure of Prop 8. I would no more listen to him on matters concerining the Black community than I would Shelby Steele.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

JMC_in_the_ATL — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:49:16 -0000

No, it isn't shallow at all. Normative visibility is a large step to acceptance for any disadvantaged group. Will & Grace presented a very non-threatening view of gay life to a large portion of the population.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

thefoulness — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:07:40 -0000

As a Californian who was shocked, disturbed and embarrassed that Prop 8 managed to pass this past November, I was thrilled yesterday to see that Vermont finally did the right thing. Let's hope DC is next, and the rest of the country...

Question: is it wrong to think of Will & Grace as the gay Cosby show? It seems to simple and trite to give any credit to a sitcom for changing America's attitudes, but it's hard for me not to see it as somewhat of a turning point. But when I write it down, it does sound shallow...

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

DC Fem — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:05:06 -0000

See I never called him out like you just did but I did stop reading his blog after his continued dumping on black Californians as the reason that Prop. 8 didn't pass. As if a group of people who make up 6% of a states population can determine the outcome of an election.

DC does not have rural, Bible belt so I think gay people will have full equality here by the end of 2009. I certainly am in support of their rights.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

EdTheRed — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:02:38 -0000

Isn't it more like 15,000 signatures, not 1,500? If you've got approximately 300,000 registered voters, 5% would be 15,000...and I know the medical marijuana initiative needed a bit more than 17,000 signatures. So yeah, really, really tough to do (just ask those guys who tried to get slot machines on the ballot here). And good luck getting 5% of those signatures from here in Ward 2.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

EdTheRed — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:57:46 -0000

Philip with one "L". Phillip Pannell with two "Ls"? I'd bet there have been too many kids like him down south:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_Pannell

Also, the ballot initiative thing...sheesh...we all know how effective those are in DC. What ever happened to our medical marijuana ballot initiative, anyway? Oh yeah! It passed back in 1998 with 70% of the vote, and Congress told us to go take a flying leap.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

Fletch — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:46:22 -0000

As a native DCer and former resident, I agree that the politics in DC, racial and otherwise are very different from the rest of the nation, and I doubt that tactics that work elsewhere will translate directly to DC. However, Marc Fisher had an interesting piece in the Washington Post on April 2nd regarding how the bottling industry used race as a wedge issue to defeat the possibility of a bottle deposit in the late 1980s. I could only find the mobile version on the web.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

Elizabeth — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:07:11 -0000

I'm a DC resident and agree with Andrew that there is a great deal of lingering gay-black tension in the city. I think it has a lot to do with gentrification. But that's a whole other story.

I agre w/ Ta-Nehisi and Elw that it will be difficult for Republicans to exploit these tensions to stop marriage in DC through a ballot initiative. To add to Elw's comments, DC law makes it fairly difficult to put up ballot initiatives in the District. Petitioners would have 180 days to collect signatures from roughly 1500 registered voters (5% of DC's registered voters), and of those signatures, 5% must come from each of the eight wards. Further, if the Council passes marriage legislation by amending DC's Human Rights Act, as they have been discussing, DC law would prohibit such an initiative.

Anyway, gay rights groups have already started reaching out to black people and faith communities in the city, and I hope they keep it up. The real issue will be keeping Congress out of it. Since DC residents don't get a vote, it will be important for marriage equality supporters across the country to reach out to their representatives to let them know that they do not support the Feds interfering with DC's move towards progress.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

elw — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:51:20 -0000

Thanks. Exactly -- the whole jurisdiction is a city. There's no need to negotiate with socially conservative rural areas, except when Congress starts messing with us. DC has a really high quotient of educated people, liberals, and gays -- including among African Americans.

And his thinking betrays lack of knowledge or curiosity about majority-black jurisdictions in general, I think. Detroit's politics too are extremely socially liberal -- one of the first sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants, for example. And Wayne County (which includes Detroit and some low-income socially conservative white areas) was less likely to vote yes on banning gay marriage than the state as a whole, and if I had the time to separate out Detroit I bet it's an even stronger difference.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

Persia — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:26:55 -0000

I should point out that I read Andrew's column pretty regularly and I don't think he wears white sheets or anything. But his racial thinking is fucked up.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

Persia — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:21:43 -0000

People have misjudged their constituents before, but you'd have to be completely off to vote unanimously for something your voters would toss you for, I think. That's part of it.

The other part is that Andrew's racist. I was trying to figure out a way to say that nicely, and I can't, and I'm not sure he deserves to have it phrased nicely anyway. He can't believe that black people could be as sophisticated and smart as the Nice White Folk who are usually the face of the gay rights movement.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:19:42 -0000

Elw, you said it better than me. That's what I was getting at with the whole Phillip Pannell thing. There's no analogue to him anywhere--if only because of the size of D.C., relative to other places. Political power in D.C. is much more concentrated.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

elw — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:08:42 -0000

I live in the District and think there are a few things Andrew misses. One is that DC has what seems to be me to be a fairly strong black gay community, I would guess one of the strongest in the country. I know Atlanta does too, but Georgia is a lot bigger than Atlanta. There are mostly black gay bars and clubs, and when I watch the high school kids in my neighborhood I frequently see openly queer kids hanging out in a way that would never have been cool in my largely-white high school.

Two is that I don't know how much attention he pays to city politics here, but in every election the politicians compete to be more pro-gay, even the Republicans. Fenty supports marriage and won every precinct in the city. The vote was unanimous yesterday, including all the black councilmembers. It clearly hasn't been a problem so far.

Three I guess isn't something he's missed, but man, why is he so focused on this idea of black homophobia? There's something about it that really doesn't feel right.

Re: Gay Marriage And The District

Hill Rat — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:09:07 -0000

I dunno if hatred for the GOP automatically trumps homophobia among Black people in DC. I see too many examples of organized, recalcitrant homophobia on the part of churches in DC to be optimistic.