The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Gatesgate

Re: Gatesgate

Lieder — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:29:43 -0000

Consider this counterfactual scenario. If the president had focused only on the topic of the evening (i.e., health-care reform), the media would have escalated their coverage of the health-care debate. More important: the public would have learned more about why Obama is pushing such an agenda.

Instead, newspaper journalists and television broadcasters the next day were focusing on the Cambridge incident, generating more page clicks and purchases of newspapers by virtue of the controversy. The incentive and opportunity to inform the public about health-care reform, in a word, disappeared.

Re: Gatesgate

Erik Love — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:37:23 -0000

I can't exactly say "I told you so," because I predicted the clarification statement would happen "any minute now," but it took Obama about 36 hours. Anyway, here you go.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/obama-expresses-his-regrets-on-gates-incident/

Let's hope that Gatesgate turns into a productive moment.

And I really hope that the media does its real job by talking seriously about health care, the biggest legislative issue since the Iraq War resolution.

Re: Gatesgate

Alesis — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:04:28 -0000

It's Friday they're just glad to have something new to say and it's still not on equal billing with healthcare... wish it was....

I was pleasantly surprised that it's being discussed widely but it can't last and it certainly can't hurt healthcare.

Re: Gatesgate

BreakerBaker — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:06:54 -0000

While they are not so much about making news, they are about making THE news. And it's true, the press conference was talked about on every news and newsy show yesterday. The lede? In the last minute of the press conference, the black president called the white cop stupid! Stop the Presses!

Re: Gatesgate

BreakerBaker — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:01:24 -0000

Um...a day has passed, and...I told you so.

Re: Gatesgate

enigma3535 — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:30:12 -0000

There is no recording of what verbiage [or tone] was exchanged in this case between Gates and Crowley, but, IMHO, the circumstantial evidence seems to weigh in favor of an irate, jet-lagged Gates going off on a cop trying to investigate a call to the police regarding a potential burglary in progress. Gates appears to be a home-owner that denied at least one request for identification and may have responded to this one request with hostility.

Some telling data points:

“Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.”

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday. The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said. The academy trains cadets for cities across the region.

Fellow officers, black and white, say Crowley is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

There may be other shoes to drop. But, at this point, if I had to bet the house, I'd bet that Gates is primarily at fault here ... I think he flipped out and got arrested for it.

Re: Gatesgate

frankie d — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:59:38 -0000

anna perez,

i probably read and listen to just about everything obama says, publically.

yes, occasionally, he will say things that sound somewhat "tough" when he talks about health insurance and bankers but that tough talk rings stunningly hollow when compared to his actions in dealing with those entities.

he basically sold out the american taxpayers to the bankers, has actually increased a disgracefully bloated military budget, and he refuses to impose any regulations that have any real teeth on investors.

talking tough to the iranian regime is one of the cheapest and easiest shots any american politician can ever take, and exactly how has he taken on the honduran coup?

in obama i see an extraordinarily cautious, almost timid, politician who is never going to be a real leader, unfortunately.

regarding the penn speech, anyone can say anything they wish about who decided to do what. the cold hard fact is that the speech was given in response to the turmoil caused by reverend wright. it was not something he spontaneously decided to do because he felt so strongly about those issues.

facts are facts and spin is what paid political advisors attempt to insert into the public record.

Re: Gatesgate

Hugo Pottisch — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:25:12 -0000

Folks - I have a question for those who consider the 3 minute statement as bad timing. Why? Obama talks for hours every day about health care and has spend ca 180 seconds on racism. When I clean my ears I do not make a case for not brushing my teeth? And when my ears are dirty today - I will not wait a week only to brush my teeth today.

I just don't see any connection between his couple of seconds on a racial incident today and the months and daily hours Obama has and still is spending on health care. Please explain. How can two mutually exclusive things bother each other? Really? Only because you had breakfast you will skip lunch and dinner? Only because you played with one of your children you will no play with the others?

Please, genuinely, enlighten me. It's not like we are distracted from our two wars because the president choked and almost died of a pretzel while watching football, is it?

Re: Gatesgate

Hugo Pottisch — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:05:52 -0000

Must watch - forward to 07:45... following Malcolm's advice - if possible he tries not to speak for others himself. Pity that I cannot find the whole documentary and full interview.

And here.. Obama does Brando.

Re: Gatesgate

Hugo Pottisch — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:37:59 -0000

Marlon Brando has often been accused of bad timing. He had been active since the 1950s regarding how minority groups are portrait by Hollywood but also in other media.

He refused his Oscar in 1973 for the Godfather - because 20 years after he had started his campaign - the situation was still unacceptable from a human, non-white, point of view. Watch it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QUacU0I4yU

Here - in a rare Interview - Brando describes what he actually had in mind. Watch it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNd9FhfBFcY

Clint Eastwood - who later presented the Oscar for best film - was angry at the bad timing. This was Hollywoods day of celebration and not critique. He belittled Brando and his cause by dedicating the next Oscar to the poor cowboys who have been killed by Native Americans. I am glad to see that Clint has grown up - it took him longer than most - but he truly is the guy in Grand Torino - a Kowalski like in A Streetcar Named Desire. He was 50 years late in understanding Brando's message, Clint could have been a CR contender, yet the point is that he got it in the end. (but an Osacar, please.. not?)

Clint Eastwood and others further ridiculed Brando for just having found a social cause to ride on - now that he was famous and successful. What a lot of projection - Brando had been at it since the 50s, more than 20 years, and given that everybody was crazy about Brando, the actor, at the time - it was and is surprising how little people knew about him.

Re: Gatesgate

dmf — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:15:15 -0000

pz, no worries i was just wasn't sure where all of the venom/attitude was coming from. live and learn for all of us

Re: Gatesgate

Faivel — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:41:31 -0000

Anna, I'd tell you, if you weren't so eager to know...

Re: Gatesgate

TheBlackBuckley — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:22:51 -0000

PRESIDENT OBAMA CO-SIGNS. Sorta.

Now I know President Obama co-signed for Professor Gates in last night’s prime-time Press Conference. He has since had his spokesperson Robert Gibbs walk that support back a bit. I feel the President, Gates is his friend. He admitted he was biased before he answered the question and we all give immunity and have blind spots for our friends and family. My dear, lovely, wife has a cousin in jail for drug dealing who she swears is wrongfully convicted. But when push comes to shove she wouldn’t let him keep his things at our house for little while. By the same token, I bet your bottom dollar there are two places the President, nor the rest of us, would take Professor Gates. 1. To a fight and 2. To talk to the police.

http://newsone.blackplanet.com/nation/the-jailhouse-conversion-of-henry-louis-skip-gates-jr/

Re: Gatesgate

TheBlackBuckley — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:20:40 -0000

PRESIDENT OBAMA CO-SIGNS. Sorta.

http://newsone.blackplanet.com/nation/the-jailhouse-conversion-of-henry-louis-skip-gates-jr/

Re: Gatesgate

TheBlackBuckley — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:18:52 -0000

PRESIDENT OBAMA CO-SIGNS. Sorta.

http://newsone.blackplanet.com/nation/the-jailhouse-conversion-of-henry-louis-skip-gates-jr/

Re: Gatesgate

Jennifer D. — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:15:28 -0000

@Marcos El Malo

"Maybe he hates mayonnaise and isn't afraid to talk about it."

Guffaw!

Re: Gatesgate

Marcos El Malo — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:50:49 -0000

The gulf between the 80% of Americans with some abilities to use reason and Real Americans™ is growing by the day and the population of Real America™ might actually be shrinking slightly, as a few here and there regain their senses and say, "I can't go there."

Re: Gatesgate

nst — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:46:52 -0000

The President is nothing, but prudent and "stupid" was a good word. But I am watching the "news" at this moment and most of what I am hearing is criticism of his wording. The President still is not being allowed the courtesy of speaking as a person of conscience and of color. Let's face it, we are mostly preaching to choir when we comment here.

Re: Gatesgate

Marcos El Malo — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:36:20 -0000

@Anna,

Maybe he hates mayonnaise and isn't afraid to talk about it.

Re: Gatesgate

ApprxAm — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:35:51 -0000

I absolutely agree with the President's position, I just didn't think he used the best language. "Stupidity" wasn't a term I'd expect from the usually thoughtful Obama. This is simply a case of an experienced public official, doing his "duty" of law enforcement as written, fearing no consequence of misapplication .

The real issue is the lack of "spirit" of the law, which requires a "benefit of doubt" posture at times. This spirit of justice is commonly over-looked during traffic stops that turn into containment and search sessions in which entire families are made to freeze on the hoods of their cars. When the description of a "suspect" as black turns police department into search "parties", hellbent on turning over every stone, kicking in every door. Or when the search for one man, turns "tactical" police units in their zeal to fight crime, to use erroneous tactics that exposes them to harm, resulting in a sickening volley of of more than three dozen bullets at an unarmed man.

The fix to all of these "events" require no Affirmative Action programs to displace the deserving SATers or qualified applicants, nor does it require the lowering of job qualifications or setting a grade curve. Like most Americans, we simply don't want to be treated this way. I'm at a lost as to why many are surprised by this.

Re: Gatesgate

permazorch — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:54:29 -0000

Just made a huge, linktastic response, but I'm not sure it will post. This has happened before, where I worked at it and was rewarded with static.

dmf, I will try to do better. You're right. Our host and the rest of you deserve better. I'm sorry to have been a pain, and please bear with me.

Re: Gatesgate

anna perez — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:51:49 -0000

the comedian, Jeff Foxworthy's most famous (ok, only famous) routine was "You may be a redneck if you.... And it was usually hilarious (you may be a redneck if you go to family reunions looking for dates.) The routine is akin to Chris Rock's "I love Black people, but I hate Niggers!"

How about fill in this blank: You may be a racist if.......

Re: Gatesgate

Mark — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:18:02 -0000

Miranda was a dirtbag - rapist, kidnapper, armed robber; ultimately died in a bar brawl. But he forced the supreme court to codify rights we now consider inalienable.

Gates was in the right; he was a jerk, but so what? He used his power and fame to show how the Cambridge police violated the law and his rights. It is precisely because he is privileged that he can assert his rights and hopefully make some positive changes for the rest of us.

Telling everyone - even those who have the power to effect change - to just suck it up smacks of apathy and fear.

Re: Gatesgate

anna perez — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:22:18 -0000

No disrespect, but it seems like you are kind of cheery picking Obama's words, like the NYT did after the NAACP speech. Both contemporaneous and more recent (see this weeks NYTimes Jarret cover story) reports more than indicate that the overwhelming majority of Obama's top campaign advisors did not want him to make the Penn. speech, so he in fact chose to do so. Did he need to do it? Well, in hindsight because it turned out so well, yeah. But it could have gone either way.

I have also heard Obama hector investors, bankers, military industrial complex (F22), doctors (last night's presser), health insurance companies and the Iranian and Honduran govt.s. Obama never demonizes anyone or anything, that's not his style, both for strategic and I suspect personal reasons.

Re: Gatesgate

permazorch — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:18:20 -0000

Again, my apologies. Terse is no way to comment, and I'm sorry I spoke when I couldn't speak completely.

With regard to my reference to your and Carrington's respective comments:

ellaesther = three steps forward

Carrington = two steps back

When it comes to our police municipalities and their procedures.