The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Frankie gets a post

Re: Frankie gets a post

rikyrah — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:04:15 -0000

Count me among the Obama supporters who don't, in any way, want Hillpatine on the ticket.

UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Re: Frankie gets a post

John Henry — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:10:07 -0000

I still think turnout is going to be the deciding factor here. I'm really skeptical that Republicans will turn out for McCain, UNLESS you put Hillary on the ticket. Why help Mcain energize his base?!?!

Re: Frankie gets a post

frankie d — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:00:25 -0000

toxic,

do you think the republicans can get any more lowdown and mean and nasty?

i don't think so.

they've shown that they will sink to the lowest depths even without clinton to run against, so i cannot imagine things getting any worse.

remember, americans are much LESS tolerant of sexism than they are of racism. they just joke and talk more about matters that may be sexist, while racism usually is framed in a more sublte fashion.

and i think you make the same mistake that al gore made when you fret about the "baggage" from the clinton years.

if he had embraced, rather than tried to distance himself from the clinton economy, he would have won with enough of a margin so as to have made florida's results irrelevant.

the fact is that bill has always been extremely popular.

the fact is that people have extremely fond memories of the clinton economy.

in fact, i think that obama is verging on making gore's same mistake, by not trying to tap into the kind of satisfaction most americans had during the clinton/democratic years.

having a clinton on the ticket, only helps to remind people of the fact that once upon a time, the economy did work for average americans.

Re: Frankie gets a post

toxic — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:35:36 -0000

8 years of Bill & Hill baggage.

Vast pools of hate to tap into.

Get to add sexism to the dog whistle collection.

Piss of the left wing b/c Obama is betraying his promise.

Yikes. Might as well hand McCain the election by default.

Re: Frankie gets a post

Colin — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:16:34 -0000

"Cajones" would be large boxes ... it's a common anglophone misspelling.

Clearly BHO wants this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Williams

Re: Frankie gets a post

tinisoli — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:48:00 -0000

"i knew she was perfect for this kind of job back in '92 when i saw her snap back that she wasn't some little tammy wynette saying that she'll just stand by her man while she stayed home and baked cookies."

I think that Hillary's history of, um, "standing by her man" tends to undermine your point.

Re: Frankie gets a post

frankie d — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:38:52 -0000

T-NC,

thanks for the post.

the check will be in the mail!

i couldn't agree more with your view.

obama's best style of presentation involves a subtlety that just goes over the heads of most voters.

hillary is just the opposite. she's like one of those old vikings charging ahead with a big club, ready to pummel whoever is in her way.

i think it would be an unbeatable combination.

barack standing above the fray, as is his habit, and hillary doing the dirty work, which she relishes.

i knew she was perfect for this kind of job back in '92 when i saw her snap back that she wasn't some little tammy wynette saying that she'll just stand by her man while she stayed home and baked cookies.

barack would be a fool if he did not pick clinton.

i'm glad to see that you've seen the light on my girl, hillary!

Re: Frankie gets a post

Tinare — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:20:11 -0000

She not only comes with baggage, but I'd be surprised if the Republicans haven't found more and better dirt. They had 8 years to prepare for her. They've got it, they haven't been able to use it. They're lying in wait. She'd be a disasterous choice.

Re: Frankie gets a post

Natasha October — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:12:03 -0000

"Cajones" -- is this the feminine form of "cojones"?

Re: Frankie gets a post

John Henry — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:50:04 -0000

I think Obama is a great attack dog when he gets indignant as evidenced with his "sitting on the board of Walmart" comment. The difference between Barack's attack and Hillary's attack is that Barack's is true.

Deep down Hillary has too much respect for Lee Atwater/Karl Rove style of campaigning. She has adopted all of them. Lets not forget her implosion with the Bosnia lie. That was a real unforced error that hurt her. She's got very high negatives already. I forget which poll it was that said 2/3 of people thinks she's a fraud. And lastly, Republicans are just settling for McCain. They dont really like him. There's no passion there. Putting Hillary on the ticket will drive them to the polls on election day. The hate is that strong.

I think we need someone who will maintain their integrity while attacking. I like Kaine, especially after seeing him respond to Karl Rove.

Re: Frankie gets a post

num1Obanaton — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:39:47 -0000

Obama laying in the cut while a woman stands up to for him against the Republican slime machine, just doesn't strike me a good idea. The Obama camp had to know this kind of stuff was coming. Hopefully they have a better strategy for a push back than handing it off to the VP, whoever that may be.

Personally, I'm still hoping that Wesley Clark gets the nod.

Re: Frankie gets a post

Maha X — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:12:48 -0000

Barack is both too smart and too self-confident to either cave into the Clintons or play defense with an establishment dullard like Biden or Bayh.

While they've made mistakes here and there, the Obama campaign has always maintained focus, consistency and the long view. That's why he won the nomination.

Where I'm going with this: The core principle of the campaign -- and its strategy for victory -- has been all along: Expand the base in an aggressive 50-state strategy.

I'd be deeply surprised if the VP pick were someone whose selection didn't directly underscore the 50-state strategy and the message of fresh leadership.

Re: Frankie gets a post

tinisoli — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:03:30 -0000

What Mark said.

The notion of Hillary as "tough" will always collapse under the weight of what Bill did to her (multiple times) and what she put up with instead of walking away from. A doormat is a doormat, regardless of its rhetoric or its posturing or the way the media depicts it as "tough" because it didn't walk out on a lying, cheating husband. Plus, she failed to stand up to Bush.

Dark horse pick: Jim Webb

Re: Frankie gets a post

keith — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:02:53 -0000

I guess I have always been in the minority in thinking he did well in this exchange. Sure he seemed uncomfortable in attacking her, but the substance and depths of the attacks were effective. He managed to paint her as untruthful, he made the digg about running against both her and her husband, and clearly got her to appear shrill by causing her to swing with the Rezko comeback. After the debate, that charge was proven to be quite the reach. That being said, I think that there is merit to a fighter as the VP whether it be Biden or Clinton, clearly Barack is at his best when he is able to remain above the fray.

The best part of the clip is the great "WOW" response from Stephanie Tubbs Jones, she will be missed...

Re: Frankie gets a post

Breukelyne — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:01:02 -0000

ps.

He definitely could use an attack dog as VP. Just not Clinton.

Re: Frankie gets a post

DougEFresh — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:58:38 -0000

"Illusion" should be "allusion". I should proof this before I hit post

Re: Frankie gets a post

Breukelyne — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:58:05 -0000

Sorry Ta-N.

I am no Clinton fan, but I do give her props where it's due. She does have positives as a candidate, and she has pushed some things legislatively that are good.

But putting her on the Obama ticket as VP would be the EPIC FAIL to end all EPIC FAILs.

Re: Frankie gets a post

DougEFresh — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:56:06 -0000

I agree, Obama comes off much better when he throws a humorous dig at an opponent. I remember that realization hitting me when he and Clinton were fighting over the gun clinging thing. He responded to Clinton by making an illusion to her pretending to be like Annie Oakley.

It was such a sharp attack that exposed her pandering and being Clintonian. The netroots are full of a lot of armchair machismoists who seem to want to push hyperaggressive politics (maybe as a way of compensating for something). But I think asking Obama to do that is like when the Lions asked Barry Sanders to block, that just wasn't his thing.

Re: Frankie gets a post

Mark — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:40:29 -0000

Hillary is a malignant cancer within the Democratic Party with her Karl Rove slash and burn mentality and her inability to ever tell the truth. She's nothing more than Dick Cheney in an ugly pantsuit. She ran a disgusting, dishonest campaign based on race-baiting and fear-mongering. She doesn't deserve the VP slot because she lacks integrity, decency, and gravitas. Hillary is a megalomanic with the mentality of a teenage punk. She and Bill want to hold the Democratic Party hostage. They don't own the fricking party. It's time to put the two-headed megalomanical monster of Bill and Hillary in the rearview mirror and forget about them.

Re: Frankie gets a post

Nathan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:11:47 -0000

I hove no idea who Obama will pick and this late in the game its all meaningless speculation. I will say, s someone who was enthusiastically behind Clinton until Obama got it and who now likes Obama - political chops aside - what I like about a "unity" ticket is two-fold; one, it brings the Democratic party solidly together in a way I can't remember them being. Don't kid yourself thinking there's not still a lot of pro-Clinton resentment out there. Second, an Obama-HRC ticket would unambiguously break the mold. A black man and a woman ticket - after eight years of the most white bread, pork-chop, viagra popping southern white male bullshit, that's change I can believe in.

Re: Frankie gets a post

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:11:40 -0000

Right, right, right. Mitt Romney and Rudy have done plenty of attacking. I fear she ain't gonna do it unless he wifes her though. Which, in and of itself, may make the case against.

Re: Frankie gets a post

latts — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:03:38 -0000

Y'know, the VP candidate doesn't actually have to be the one and only 'attack dog;' it's usually a good idea to have a pack of them on hand during a campaign, after all. People like HRC and Biden actually should be effective in that role without being on the ticket, simply because they can get plenty of press coverage completely independently (and as a bonus, the campaign won't have to stand by what's said).

Also, what John B. said wrt the Clinton baggage... it's not just Bill, but the entire brigade of undisciplined, self-aggrandizing hacks that happily leaked their way through Bill's administration.

Re: Frankie gets a post

SeanH — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:58:09 -0000

If he needs a bar fighter he's much better off choosing Biden in my opinion.

Re: Frankie gets a post

John B. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:50:51 -0000

An Obama/Clinton ticket would be a disaster--and, like you, I'm thinking not just of the short-term but of the White House dynamic. In the short term, Hillary (and her husband) have not been fully vetted--there's all the post-presidency hob-nobbing Bill has done with less-than-upright individuals for (some would argue) less-than-upright reasons); and in the long term, there'd be, at best, a sense that choosing Hillary would be a CYA choice for the neophyte Obama--that he's so incapable/unsure of himself, he'd in essence would be getting two Vice Presidents. The optics would be horrible: the Bush-Cheney dynamic all over again, but arguably worse. And I'm not just referring to between now and November, either.

It's clear to me that Obama and his advisors have always had the long view in mind; surely they are not looking only to November but well beyond January. If that's also true of the VP search, then Clinton is not and has never been a realistic option.