The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

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Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

jasonsunero — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:58:55 -0000

I'm with Bert on this. I think it is very important for Colin and other black republicans/conservatives to distance themselves from those that wish to rely on his skin color as proof that he or she is not racist.

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Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Bert — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:01:58 -0000

I'm not demonizing black Republicans. It's totally cool to be black and small government, strong national defense. I just worry that people like Michael Steele can give the confederate flag waving teabaggers cover to say, "Hey we're not racist because look at who our friend is."

I think Colin Powell has done the right thing in distancing himself from these people. I wish the rest of Black Republicans would do the same.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Bert — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:56:11 -0000

I was unaware that she supports affirmative action. That certainly goes very much against her Party. I still say it is a relevent question of why the teabaggers think Obama is the antiChrist but Rice and Clarence Thomas are totally chill?

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

anna perez — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:04:44 -0000

Just a couple more points: Condi has said repeatedly and on the record that slavery was "America's original birth defect" and that the Constitution left her folks out when it said "all men are created equal." And long before Don Imus was kicked off the air for the "nappy headed ho's" crap, Condi, dispite repeated requests from WH (43) senior staff, refused to go on his show, because Imus had "joked," on the air, that the WH was letting a cleaning woman into the press briefing room when Gwen Ifil was named a WH correspondent.

Condi doesn't need (and probably doesn't want) me to defend her. I will continue to do so, however, when I think people are just plain wrong.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

anna perez — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:22:12 -0000

Um, Condi supports affirmative action. When someone in the Bush 43 WH press office leaked to the press otherwise, during the dust-up over the Michigan decision, she issued a press release (the only one during her tenure as NSA) stating her clear support--I know, I wrote the release. Look it up. And if you are going to snap on her--at least spell her name right.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

The Ninja Zombie — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:12:31 -0000

Concerning health care for illegals, Dean Heller (R-Nevada) did offer a solution. He tried to require that the SAVE (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) system be used to check the citizenship of a person before they get government subsidized health insurance.

The Democrats shot down that amendment. I wonder why?

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Bert — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:43:21 -0000

If you're a black person who believes that affirmative action is unfair; who believes that the government should take no role in aid to the black community; who believes that the government has nothing to apologize for with regards to slavery and Jim Crowe; if you're a black person with these political beliefs than Limbaugh and company will love you. Look at Michael Steele and Condoleeza Rice.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:03:39 -0000

Sorry I'm late on this. Been off working. Dude is banned.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

David — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:57:21 -0000

Dude, chill.

Obama was elected President, not Dictator. He took office nine months ago. If he had attempted to ram through his full agenda in the first nine months, the craziness we're seeing now would look like a love-fest. It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

Nine months in office. Seems a bit premature to give up now and just hate the man. Giving up now and spending the next three years griping that he didn't do everything YOU wanted the way YOU wanted it done isn't going to move us any closer to getting anything accomplished. Don't just hold your breath until you turn blue. Push for what you want. Push your Congresscritter. Organize around a policy init1ative you think is important. Channel that disappointment toward getting something done.

Perhaps the outrage would be better spent in holding your man accountable for some of what he promised you?

That's what most of us are doing. Seems more productive than giving up and deciding to just hate the man and hope things get better magically in 2012. Because guess what? They won't. Your responsibility as a citizen doesn't begin and end with casting a vote for somebody else to do your bidding. You want change? Make change happen.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

David — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:29:51 -0000

Except that the question and answer weren't as you described.

The question was, "Were your girls as hacked off as mine that Kanye gave Taylor Swift the Joe Wilson treatment?"

The initial answer was, "I thought that was really inappropriate."

As I heard it, the Joe Wilson reference was a throwaway attempt at being clever. True, the President's response could easily apply to the actions of either Kanye West or Joe Wilson, although I think it's pretty clear he was talking about Kanye. I'm sure he thought they were BOTH really inappropriate. As do I. That doesn't imply a comparison, though, much less any kind of equivalence.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

anna perez — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:15:49 -0000

"Obama is scum." Not really up to the usual level of debate at this site. But what can one expect of a thread-jacking, concern troll. As a former GOP flack, I know one when I read one. No disrepect, but if you are going to earn your keep, you're going to have to do a better job than this.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

converse — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:32:10 -0000

Sorry I'm coming late to this... But I think you're giving them too much credit. Seems to me they're just trying to make more money. Capitalism/greed has always had the flaw of promoting evil.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Carrington — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:51:33 -0000

Listening to Obama's clip, I have to enjoy the initial question -- in essence "can you compare Joe Wilson and Kanye West." It is interesting that Obama was perfectly happy to do so.

What's also interesting is the sense we get of Obama's relationship with his press pool.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Carrington — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:32:00 -0000

This is where Obama has been particularly effective, and well worth the vote.

We can worry about where 'he' stands, etc. But his cabinet appointments have been generally excellent about doing their job.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Bruins2Lakers — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:31:06 -0000

Agreed. Kind of like Manson listening to Helter Skelter and trying to start a race war by killing rich and famous white people. Limbaugh is no les insane, no less dangerous.

While these cats manipulate the fears of the racists, the same tactic was used by the conservative right to stir the opposition too to JFK, an equally popular, equally brilliant, and, in speeches, equally persuasive President. Signs in Dallas that day in 1963 read "Kennedy a Traitor," and "JFK is a Commie." They created a climate of fear; fear morphs into hate; hate morphs into something we dare not imagine.

Limbaugh is the moral equivalent of someone yelling 'fire' in a crowded theatre, and I wish there wass something that could be done to to deter the panic he creates in the ignorant fringes of the far right. I suppose we have to put up, but we don't have to shut up. He has sponsors too, just like Beck.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Carrington — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:51:59 -0000

@wendy,

I'd have a certain degree of respect for the conservatives if they were actually condemning water-boarding, renditions, or the war on terror. The problem is that they are not.

Rather it's incoherent stuff: Obama =Hitlercastrostalin... but he should still have the power to waterboard and disappear people, ...but for God's sake keep the government's hands off my medicare.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Carrington — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:47:28 -0000

I agree with you that there's an "all opposition to Obama is racist" meme circulating in the air (or rather, on the air) but I tend to think that it is being circulated by Beck and Limbaugh as much as anyone else -- how many times do they preface their remarks "now, people are going to call me racist for saying this..., but... "

That preface is strategic, I believe.

The first reality is that their remarks walk the line on treachery as much as racism -- 'let the country fail, just as long as Obama fails.'

Their freedom rests on the first amendment, not the second.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Carrington — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:32:23 -0000

The problem for the right: it's the first amendment that protects them, not the second.

The state still holds the monopoly of organized violence. You could say they're thinking like 357s in a .223 caliber world.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Carrington — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:25:20 -0000

Not least because many of the people who Rush and Glenn 'fire up' are in their 50s and 60s -- they have much more political weight when part of the 'silent majority'.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

CitizenE — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:14:13 -0000

I have serious problems with O on banking and Afghanistan policies. I believe he should have been called to task on health care, but the real culprits here you should be critiquing are the Senate Dems). So far however, I don't see him behaving much differently than what he campaigned to do. The idea that he is the same as Bush is foolish. So far Obama has been a decent President as Presidents go (get a grip on historical perspective here), especially given the ditch our nation has driven itself into. I do think the critique of him from the left is far more cogent than the one from the right because it is on policy rather than fallacy, but I haven't noticed him fiddling (George Bush actually played guitar while New Orleans drowned), and this particular post is not about all opposition to the President, but how TN and the people who are posting here relate to how racial issues are part of our current national political illness and fever.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

stc — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:46:32 -0000

I guess you guys are mostly Obama supporters? Its interesting that everyone is getting so worked up over racial issues, I guess nobody noticed that Obama basically sold out every constituency that may have voted for him.

Look what he's done for you - bailing out banksters while he watches the unemployment rate soar, no meaningful financial reform, no real inclination to renegotiate free trade agreements, health care "reform" that basically grants private insurers a government enforced monopoly and threatens to pinch thousands more per year from the middle class paycheck, wholehearted support of the PATRIOT act, no accountability for Bush II era crimes, trite laughter at the idea of drug policy reform, support for organized labor that only goes so far as lip service, and so forth.

Just like anyone else who gets to the level where they were able to mount a serious (and ultimately successful) attempt at the presidency, Obama is scum; yet another face man who told us all a big pack of lies to get elected. Now that he's in office he fiddles while Rome burns and bankers rejoice, stuffing their pockets with all they can grab before the house of cards comes crashing down for good. And for the rest of us? Let them eat hope!

So, while some people may hate Obama for his race, please don't so smear all of us who stand against him; many hate him for his policies and his plastic persona. It's nothing personal; give me a guy on the same level as Bush and I will hate him with equal veracity.

Perhaps the outrage would be better spent in holding your man accountable for some of what he promised you?

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

CitizenE — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:40:50 -0000

Day late and dollar short here, but of course the right wingnuttery are playing on identity politics and age old American pecking order paranoia; the demographics of the world is changing, and the US is headed towards a multiracial-multiethnic population and the modest white world that David Brooks laments has for some time now been going retrograde. There is a power shift in this country, and it is one of the reasons Obama got elected. His stance on health care reform was another reason he got elected.

I had a hard time with Wilson being the straw that seems to have broken the camel's back on this, especially because the actual racism he employed was a fear of brown people crossing the Rio Grande, not a black person in the White House. That is, what Wilson wants his constituents to think is that they have more to fear from illegal immigrants playing the system than the insurance companies (who have contributed largely to his campaigns) screwing the American populace.

Of course some racism should be called out, but the problem with it being called out in an ad hominem fashion is that folks such as Limbaugh can easily distract everyone who thinks just because they don't belong to the KKK that they are not racist from the policy issues. The kind of unconscious racism that is almost impossible to avoid in the US is something being played. But the real meaning of racism is when it is institutionalized.

Let's take Acorn. There should be no difficulty with the idea that Acorn should be held accountable and on the up and up, but voter fraud is nothing compared to institutional voter suppression. No doubt even if the count were accurate in Florida in the first Bush election, voter suppression clearly changed the election and the fate of our nation. Similarly, and this is directed at those who have posted at this site on Acorn, we just had an administration whose justice department went out of its way to encourage voter suppression in several elections vis a vis prosecutions that had no legal standing all over our nation. And it took months longer to get rid of the Attorney General presiding over that justice department than it did to get rid of Van Jones, who was forced out simply because of some things he signed on to when he was not even a member of any administration. And Karl Rove who orchestrated the whole thing kept his position throughout.

There is no point pointing out the number of assassination threats on our President is historically unprecedented, or that there have been blatantly racist responses to his election, except to remind people that we aren't quite post racial yet. However, pointing out how right wing regulatory, tax, trade, and wage policies have screwed poople of color and the working classes of all backgrounds should be hammered away at repeatedly, and it is on issue and policy the numbskulls on the right, who would rather call being a wise Latina reverse racism, while denying that they might have racial motivations, than really have anything other than a tax break for themselves to discuss, should be called to task.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

AhYup — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:00:09 -0000

"Again, your quote:

Al's done more verifiable damage to specific individuals with hysterically false claims than anyone well known fire breathing preacher I can think of on the right with generically hateful hyperbole.

I leave to readers to weigh its honesty."

I remain perplexed. Exactly what are you hung up on here and why remove all context to make your point?

Do you disagree that Al earned his hatred by accusations he leveled at specific individuals who were hurt or even killed by the results? Do you disagree that him being the go-to guy on race has caused a good deal of misunderstanding? Do you disagree that politically powerful right-wing preachers speak in generic terms about sins they dislike and I can't think of an example of them going after specific people with the consequences Al did?

Really, I don't get the issue here. You've been harder on Sharpton than I am.

Re: Flip And Pop My Collar Like The Fonz

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:36:46 -0000

Again, your quote:

Al's done more verifiable damage to specific individuals with hysterically false claims than anyone well known fire breathing preacher I can think of on the right with generically hateful hyperbole.

I leave to readers to weigh its honesty.