The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Dungy gone

Re: Dungy gone

Bruce — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:46:05 -0000

trying to cut through the bull here...i see some interesting points made, but it's starting to smell of trolls here...

i don't think anybody's arguing that Dungy's religion makes him HOF-material...or that it even makes him a good human being. He should be judged for the HOF regardless of his christianity AND homophobia.

I like to believe that regardless of sport (NFL, soccer, MMA, cricket, ballet, squardancing etc.), the game is set up so that the best talent gets to the top. That inadvertedly means that there needs to be a bottom. simply put, the number of players who actually "make it" is a fraction of those who try out, regardless of sport. That's the nature of the game. And EVERYONE knows this. Players, coaches, managers, owners, groundskeepers and toiletseat-cleaners.

if they didn't they will sooner or later realize it. Dungy knew that when he signed on the dotted line, and his players knew that when they tried out too. Now there are ALOT of issues with compensation and terms for both players that need adressing, but that shouldn't have any baring on the judgment of the players and coaches of today.

Re: Dungy gone

Juba — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:32:15 -0000

@ Moe,

You dont hate Dungy but you suggest he neglected his family and drove his son to suicide?

@ Bob

Celebrity worship is one thing--saying he's a Hypo-Christian because he broke the Golden Rule by cutting players from the team is a whole nother realm of overreaction. Frankly that may be the most childish opinion Ive ever heard expressed about football, and Ive heard many.

But you guys dont hate Dungy. Ok. Sure.

Hey guys, Im looking to buy a bridge, got any on sale?

Re: Dungy gone

MoeLarryAndJesus — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:58:25 -0000

Juba says: "Bob, MoeCurlyAndJesus,

Pure haterade. You guys are textbook haters.

You see people put Dungy on a pedestal and it makes you seethe and smirk and look for reasons to knock him down. Maybe you dont feel so good about your selves and this is what you need to do to put down your chronic insecurities?"

I don't hate Dungy. I think he's a great coach who deserves to make the HOF. I just don't think the sun shines out of his ass because he goes to church a lot.

And the fact is that he's not just an anti-gay bigot - he's an anti-gay bigot who used his celebrity to give his hatred a big platform. That's a serious character flaw.

Re: Dungy gone

dwhite10701 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:44:13 -0000

“It’s unbelievable,” [Shaun] King said. “The way he allowed me to have my opportunity to realize my dream and when you look at me, and this speaks louder than anything I can say, here’s a guy who cut me in Indianapolis for a team I deserved to be on and a tear just welled up [thinking about him].”

Re: Dungy gone

dwhite10701 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:41:18 -0000

Have a look at what Shaun King says about Dungy. And note that he says Dungy cut him in Indy when he thinks he deserved to be on the team. Doesn't look like bitterness to me.

Re: Dungy gone

dwhite10701 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:36:32 -0000

Bob, the leaps of logic you make here are astounding. A player (who played 40 years ago) hates a coach (who was an asshole according to most accounts), so that someone says something about Dungy?

Maybe if you could come up with one or two players who actually played for Dungy who are bitter towards him, your point would have a shred of merit.

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:10:06 -0000

The point still remains that it doesn't matter if former players hate their former coaches. I hate my former coach, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's an asshole. Maybe I'm the asshole,(probably) maybe Dick Butkus is the asshole. You sound as though you have some serious issues. Is Conrad Dobler your father?

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:06:30 -0000

Correction to your correction to my correction: Uh, no he didn't. But I guess that depends on your definition of 'temper tantrum.'

Of course there are literally hundres of bitter ex players. However, you sound like the one who has no clue about the culture of the NFL. The players have beef with the player's union. That is well documented. That's why they had Gene Upshaw killed. And sure, of course there are players who don't like their old coaches, but that is not where crippled players' issues are.

But it is true. Players are well compensated for ruining their bodies. And blaming an ex-coach for it is weak.

Ted Johnson is a pussy.

Re: Dungy gone

Bob — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:00:00 -0000

Stacy: I never said you can't be a good Christian and an NFL head coach. I said you can not apply Christian principles to the management of an NFL team.

Correction to your correction: Kurt Warner most certainly did throw a temper tantrum.

And as for Butkus, I used him as an example of of literally hundreds of bitter ex players. You sound like someone who has no real clue about the culture of the NFL. If it's a news flash to you that there are hundreds - if not thousands - of bitter, angry ex-players you know nothing about the game.

"No one forced anybody to play." That is - without exception - the dumbest argument used. I know, those coddled, millionaire players.

Christ, the stoopid - it hurts.

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:42:01 -0000

"Kurt Warner, another Christian hero football player, sure did act "silly" when he was benched with the Rams and threw a major media freak-out temper tantrum."

Correction: Brenda Warner threw a media freak-out temper tantrum.

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:30:08 -0000

You're a fool, Bob. I'm not talking about Dick Butkus. And who gives a flying fuck about how he feels about George Halas. Maybe Butkus was the asshole. Maybe Butkus couldn't deal with the fact that he didn't have it anymore. No one forced anybody to play.

Frankly, I don't really like Tony Dungy, but to suggest you can't be a "good Christian" because you're an NFL head coach is beyond stupid.

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:26:09 -0000

Bob,

It has nothing to do with celebrity worship. You just sound like a nerd.

"There's nothing Christian about professional football!!!"

Sheesh.

Re: Dungy gone

Bob — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:16:13 -0000

One last point on St. Tony of Indy and how "Dungy played in the fucking league. Your point is a silly one."

To this day Dick Butkus refuses to say anything about George Halas because his hatred of Halas is so deep. Why? Wtf did George Halas do? Only this; he treated Dick Butkus the way any NFL coach - to include St. Tony - treats any player; as a disposible commodity.

You really need to follow post playing days careers if your gonna spout off about what players believe, expect etc.

Re: Dungy gone

Jimmy Loves Larry — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:10:22 -0000

All you bible beaters who love to say that it's okay for Tony Dungy to be a bigot because the bible says so...how do you deal with the fact that the bible says you should be stoned to death or whatever if you work on the Sabbath?

Tony Dungy has been working on Sunday's for his entire life. Put him to death!

Look, Dungy is a bigot, and if it's gonna cost Rick Warren points on the "good guy" scale, it certainly should cost Dungy. But a lot of the same people who go after Warren won't touch Dungy, because he's a role model.

Brings up a lot of tough questions, none of which really have anything to do with football, except that Dungy's football rep is based at least in part on being a good guy, which I guess he is, unless you're gay, which by any measure you've got to believe at least a handful of his players were.

On the football side, is everyone who is giving Dungy so much credit for winning a Super Bowl in Tampa gonna give Grady Little credit for winning a World Series in Boston? Or Jim Mora for turning Indy into a winner? Yes, he had one bad season that got him fired, but turned a 3-13 team into a 13-3 team that went 10-6 the next year. Dungy never went no 13-3 in Tampa. So I guess Jim Mora deserves credit for those great Colt teams...

Re: Dungy gone

Bob — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:57:42 -0000

Kurt Warner, another Christian hero football player, sure did act "silly" when he was benched with the Rams and threw a major media freak-out temper tantrum. But hey, I must have imagined that because players know what to expect and only expect good communication skills. And frankly if you wanna talk about what's stupid – pretending that "your time in the 40 has gone from 4.6 to 4.7 (ie you could still perform your job in a perfectly adequate manner, just not quite as well as last year) so your services are no longer needed" is comparable to the way any boss treats any worker is about as stupid as it gets.

"….then it would be unchristian to fire anyone for any job that they're unable to do."

Do you honestly not see a HUGE difference between not firing the 63 yo employee who now occasionally forgets things vs. cutting someone for a 1 or 2 tenths of a second drop in speed?

The NFL is a brutal, cut throat, dog eat dog world. There is NOTHING Christian about it.

And that’s perfectly ok. The NFL doesn’t exist to spread Christianity.

Dungy could have made a career of coaching high school football. All kids who try play but only the best start, a reasonable work week, help young people find their way – you know, all those things Jesus Christ actually talked about.

I really don't get this bizarre celebrity worship. How dare I say anything bad about Tony Dungy? Look, he's a human being who makes human decisions, but one of those decisions was to spend his career in one of the most ruthless jobs in one of the most violent sports in the country.

How that jibes with following the teachings of a communitarian pacifist is beyond me.

Guess that’s more proof of my stupidity.

Re: Dungy gone

jbentley — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:50:46 -0000

It seems like standards are down to the point where you win a Superbowl and go to the playoffs a few times, and you're a HOF. For my money, the only two HOF coaches at this point are Belichick and maybe Shanahan.

Re: Dungy gone

dwhite10701 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:34:05 -0000

There is nothing Christian about the personnel decisions made every season by every head coach in the NFL. As an NFL head coach he is incapable of treating others as he would wish to be treated himself. Unless being cast aside with a battered and broken body – and loosing your livelihood in the process – once you are no longer able to perform at an absurdly high level is how you hope to be treated. As I have never had any reason to believe Dungy to be a masochist I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he doesn’t want to be treated that way.

I'm sorry, but this is just stupid. Players are fully aware that they won't be playing indefinitely. They'll play until they can't contribute, then they'll be gone. Just like every other athlete. If it's unchristian to say "since you're unable to play at the high level necessary for this league, so we're letting you go," then it would be unchristian to fire anyone for any job that they're unable to do.

Considering that Dungy was a player, he surely knows more than you or me about how players want to be treated. And considering that Dungy was voted as the coach players would most like to play for, I doubt players have any problems with how he treats them. (It's also worth noting that four of the top five coaches in that poll come from the Dungy coaching tree.)

So what do players want from a coach? According to that poll, the the most desirable attributes in a head coach were good communication skills, followed by motivational skills, approachability, management skills and leading by example.

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:32:55 -0000

"As I have never had any reason to believe Dungy to be a masochist I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he doesn’t want to be treated that way."

Dungy played in the fucking league. Your point is a silly one. I think Chrisianity is silly, but by your rationale, no true Christian could be a boss. At any profession. Get serious.

Re: Dungy gone

Bob — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:26:48 -0000

Juba: Is there any charge for your penetrating Freudian insights?

I speak for no one but myself, and as far as my "hate" goes all I've done is praise the mans work, say frankly I think he's done fine as a father and husband, but just drawn a line at the notion that he should be held up as a role model for the rest of us. You need to back off your celebrity worship and realize that all that amounts to is a reasonable assessment. You may agree or disagree, but I don't hate the man in way, shape or form.

Re: Dungy gone

Juba — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:18:15 -0000

Bob, MoeCurlyAndJesus,

Pure haterade. You guys are textbook haters.

Re: Dungy gone

Bob — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:55:49 -0000

Spgwhiteinfla: you literally have no idea what the word literally means. But thanks for sharing your brilliant insights nonetheless.

dwhite10701 “explain how the Sermon on the Mount conflicts with being an NFL coach.” What’s with you people and literalism? I said “start with” meaning it makes for a good introduction to Christ’s beliefs. Jesus of Nazareth was clearly calling for a world in which we all acted as brothers and sisters to one another – one big family – every man, woman and child helping every man, woman and child.

But hey, if you need that literal conflict, how about this from the Sermon on the Mount: “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”

Thanks for your good work in years past, thanks for playing through the pain that comes with numerous surgeries, compressed vertebra, concussions, etc, but now that you’ve lost 2 tenths of a second on your 40 yard dash your services are no longer needed.

There is nothing Christian about the personnel decisions made every season by every head coach in the NFL.

As an NFL head coach he is incapable of treating others as he would wish to be treated himself. Unless being cast aside with a battered and broken body – and loosing your livelihood in the process – once you are no longer able to perform at an absurdly high level is how you hope to be treated. As I have never had any reason to believe Dungy to be a masochist I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he doesn’t want to be treated that way.

No coach in the modern era has as many 12 win seasons as Dungy without having manipulated players, making them play through serious injuries, kicking them to the curb when no longer 100%, threatening and/or trades (and think for a minute about trades and families – middle of the school year and you’re sent 2000 miles away – do you pull your kids out of one school and move them to another or do you go without your family?).

My point wasn’t to denigrate Dungy. He’s damn good at what he does. His family situation should be a personal issue off-limits to the rest of us but he crossed that line and made the personal public long ago.

Re: Dungy gone

B-Rob — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:40:21 -0000

Persia --

The poster is correct: the Bible is very clear about homosexuality. But you know what I think says more about homosexuiality than what Paul said or what was in Leviticus? The fact that Jesus himself, in his 30 odd years on earth, is not quoted as saying ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY.

Now we know there were queers back then, otherwise there would have been no condemnation. And we know Jesus' opinions on rich men, hypocrites, etc. But not a single bleeping word about queers?

Maybe Jesus had no beef with them. Maybe he thought they fell into the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" catagory. Maybe he thought their sin was not monumental compared to the other sins he saw going on around him. But the fact remains that the man who the religion "Christianity" is named after never said a word about homosexuality or homosexuals. Silence speaks volumes.

Re: Dungy gone

Stacy — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:10:32 -0000

I saw John Clayton on Mike and Mike this morning, and he doesn't think that Dungy is going to get in. Not sure how much his opinion is worth, but he obviously really likes Dungy. He said he was 'going to miss him.'

Re: Dungy gone

sv — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:55:12 -0000

i was under the impression that Dungy was a shoe-in on stats alone, never mind the legion of people involved with football who gush about his exemplary character, or his obvious trailblazing.

Re: Dungy gone

dwhite10701 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:57:00 -0000

He is the head coach of an NFL team in the 21st century. Read the Bible, pay particular attention to the actual words spoken by Jesus Christ. Start with the Sermons on the Mount.

Please Bob, explain how the Sermon on the Mount conflicts with being an NFL coach.