The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Dumbasses

Re: Dumbasses

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Re: Dumbasses

grumpy realist — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:30:38 -0000

Large odor of fish here. I can't help but remember that this is the same group entity that copied an article called "How to Build an Atom Bomb" from the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

Re: Dumbasses

JonF — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:07:03 -0000

Re: It's not even really certain now that plague was what hit Europe because the epidemiological pattern of spread was different from what has been observed in other verified plague outbreaks. Yet the symptoms observed back seven centuries ago are in fact plague symptoms. Big puzzle.

I don't think it's that puzzling. The population was already weakened by hunger (the Little Ice Age had just begun) and in some places, by war. Plus, people lived insanely packed together, humans and animals both. So of course the epidemological patterns will be rather different than what you'd find in the modern world.

Re: Dumbasses

sharky — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:08:36 -0000

My only real reaction was "well, even if they want out, they're not going to be surrendering to us."

Re: Dumbasses

wtf — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:46:57 -0000

maybe giving our side too much credit, but i read it and thought immediately of smallpox blanket gifts for indians

Re: Dumbasses

Jim — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:05:57 -0000

"Al Qaeda has the PLAGUE?? How the FUCK did they get the plague?"

1) It's endemic to that region. That's the reservoir and that's where it breaks out from when it does break out. They got the plague by going to live there.

2) No one knows why it breaks out when it does. It's random.

3) BUBONIC plague is a poor, poor wepaon. PNEUMONIC plague is the form you weaponize. Bubonic plague spreads much more slowly than the pneumonic form.

4) It's not even really certain now that plague was what hit Europe because the epidemiological pattern of spread was different from what has been observed in other verified plague outbreaks. Yet the symptoms observed back seven centuries ago are in fact plague symptoms. Big puzzle.

5) The Sun is a rag, on the level of the National Inquirer. So consider the source.

Re: Dumbasses

sv — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:20:27 -0000

This guy (linked on Sullivan's blog) thinks it's just an exaggerated rumor. He's usually pretty sober about these sorts of things. -sv

Re: Dumbasses

TW Andrews — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:08:55 -0000

Meh, if they're actually trying to weaponize the plague, this is about par for the course--assuming this isn't a natural outbreak.

In any case, even they are trying, I'm not the least bit worried about it. It's way more likely to kill them, biological agents are notoriously difficult to weaponize effectively, requiring resources that a terrorist cell in the desert just won't have access to, and for the plague it's treatable. Way more downside potential for them than for us. I'd much rather them use scarce resources on this than planning another attack in the US.

I'm much more worried about a conventional fertilizer bomb attack on any number of chemical plants. It would do way more damage, and be much easier to carry off.

Re: Dumbasses

roac — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:49:28 -0000

I have gone from being skeptical about this story to being totally convinced that it is bogus. Mostly for the reason stated by Erika.

BTW, hantavirus and the plague are not closely related. One is a virus, the other is a bacterium. They just happen to be transmitted by similar mechanisms.

Re: Dumbasses

ErikaMSN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:33:23 -0000

Also, plague is considered endemic in the Congo, and has had recent outbreaks in Algeria, so it's not completely nuts that there would be a natural outbreak anyway.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/plague/readiness2005_1_11/en/

Re: Dumbasses

ErikaMSN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:29:13 -0000

This story smells. I haven't seen a single reputable news source pick it up, and the World Health Org., which presumably would be on the case, has no mention of it.

Until you see it at who.int., or in the MSM (yes, they're good for something), be very, very sceptical.

Re: Dumbasses

section9 — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:29:56 -0000

Ta-Nahesi, get a frakking (BSG hat-tip here) clue:

These people were medievalists who think that people like you are jumped up slaves and Obama is an apostate who has betrayed Islam. They were trying to find ways to kill us.

You may not celebrate their somewhat untimely death, but I sure as hell do.

Of course, I'm a Republican.

Re: Dumbasses

jsg — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:26:55 -0000

As others have noted, there's no mention of an attempt weaponize BP. You need to post a correction.

This sort of thing is inevitable when you've got food stores in a remote area. Animals come for the food, warmth and relative safety from predators and stick around. So do any diseases they're carrying. Native American tribes in the Southwest still have to deal with hantavirus, which is a relative of the Black Death.

This is all a very long-winded way of saying "Meh, shit happens."

Re: Dumbasses

JonF — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:33:03 -0000

What form of plague did they have? If it's bubonic, then that's spread by fleas and does not pass from person to person directly. It's also easily treatable (and generally easily recognized). Even in the Midle Ages there was a decent survival rate.

Pneumonic plague is another story. It's airborne (same bacteria by the way) and so can spread rapidly from person to person. Also, its symptoms mimic a lot of other respiratory diseases, and so are not easily recognized. And effective treatment must begin before the symptoms manifest. Untreated, it's invariably fatal.

Re: Dumbasses

Zed — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:19:13 -0000

I heard Ta-Nehisi on NPR on Obama Day. When he expressed concerns about being biracial in middle America, I had the same feeling when my dear friends, a black and white couple with two kids, left L.A. for the aforementioned uncharted territory. I was afraid I'd be hearing about crosses burning on their lawn, but things have been very cool. Their kids participate in everything and they have, as always, made a zillion new friends. I think the latter may be an answer, maybe to a lot of things. They are both smart and attractive but best of all, they're open and friendly and fun to know. More people of all colors should try it.

Re: Dumbasses

Bill Mill — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:43:34 -0000

Lemmy,

I don't quite see how your question relates to mine?

But anyway, here's a constructive proof that morals are not dependent on empathy: Person X believes that whatever actions will make humanity as a whole more productive are morally correct.

Well, good, now we've dispatched the first question! Morals can exist without empathy.

Your second question seems to be, "is empathy value-free", to which I ask "in what moral system"? In some it is, in others its not.

Why do you ask?

Re: Dumbasses

Thomas R — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:22:41 -0000

"Unfortunately, the morons could still infect a lot of innocent people." Jennifer

TR: If this is for real that would be my concern. I believe Algeria is currently better off than much of Africa, but it could still be a health threat for many people.

Re: Dumbasses

Lemmy Caution — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:58:02 -0000

Bill Mill, I have a question: if you don't feel empathetic, is there a moral question? Aren't empathy and morals kind of a chicken/egg thing?

The current psychobabble consensus is that feelings are neither good nor bad: they're just feelings. Doesn't that apply to empathy?

Re: Dumbasses

Bill Mill — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:33:00 -0000

I think it's an honestly very interesting moral question:

Why should you feel more empathetic?

Re: Dumbasses

muzz al atesta — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:55:27 -0000

i think the pentagon & al quaeda can both agree:

when dealing with the plague & anthrax be very, very careful

it might turn around and bite you in the ass

Re: Dumbasses

Jordan — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:45:47 -0000

@celticdragon

Don't forget trying to make a hybrid of Ebola and smallpox! They didn't think small out at Biopreparat.

Re: Dumbasses

celticdragon — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:31:00 -0000

I recall an interview I saw with a former Soviet Bio Weapons researcher. Pretty chilling stuff. He said that the Russians had considered weaponizing Plague, but decided it would not be effective enough against US troops. Apparently, many or most people of European decent already have a high degree of resistance or immunity to the Plague bacillus, since our ancestors who were not resistant died off.

They went with weaponizing Anthrax.

Re: Dumbasses

Swervus — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:11:29 -0000

You're all wrong.

This is the Hand of God reaching down and smacking the fuck out of these evil bastards with an extended middle finger.

Who needs Jack Bauer now?

Re: Dumbasses

sbc in sd — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:25:08 -0000

I read The Sun article and came away with the impression that these guys got bit by fleas and that it was Al Qaeda bosses who were afraid of the plague being spread to their other terrorist training camps. No, I did not feel the least bit sorry for these guys. If they want to live in the Middle Ages, then let them deal with diseases in the same way too.

Re: Dumbasses

sbc in sd — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:24:15 -0000