The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Desperation

Re: Desperation

Thomas R — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 04:34:22 -0000

"Is there a rule in politics that says only the wives of Democratic candidates get a tough scrutiny? Considering the amount of crap and level of hostility Hillary Clinton and Theresa Kerry went through and now Michelle Obama is going through, why does it seem like Cindy McCain is getting a pass from the press?"

In theory Republican wives accept that they have no power or influence on anything of substance unless they get elected in their own right. Also they're pretty often not feminist, in public anyway, so wouldn't desire or understand politics besides.

In theory Democratic wives are more liberated women who will take an active role in their husband's policies. Therefore their life experience or positions matter.

In theory. In practice several wives of Republican Presidents were pretty important while I'm not sure Ms Truman was active in much of anything. So although their might be a double-stand I'd think, regardless of party, scrutiny is more warranted if they say they're going to play an active role in their husband's administration. (Likewise scrutiny of Todd Palin is warranted for playing a role in his wife's administration, but any double-standard there might just be a bit of confusion on a politician having a "First Dude") So I don't see sympathy for Clinton, but I maybe could for Michelle because I'm not sure I've seen her push for a prominent role in the Administration. Has she?

Re: Desperation

seeker6079 — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:25:28 -0000

Will Cindy McCain now release her tax records since she is an active part of the campaign?

Thought not.

It's a shame that Obama or his surrogates will be prevented by the media moralistic double-standard from making the obvious response:

"The Obama-Biden campaign welcomes input and even disagreement from all Americans. We hope that Americans will understand and agree with our position that thieving drug addicts who avoid jail through their family connections will be pretty much the last people we listen to."

Re: Desperation

Deborah — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:23:08 -0000

@Freakdown: The best response I saw to that was a woman who would love to trade places with Cindy McCain for a day--she'd pay off her credit cards. In these times of economic freefall, "spend a day in Cindy McCain's shoes" is an incredibly alluring proposition.

And it's sad that Cindy just doesn't get that she is fortunate, and a lot of the country would love to spend a day in her shoes, son in Iraq or not.

Re: Desperation

frankie d — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:57:19 -0000

just saw stephanie cutter, michelle's spokesperson, on msnbc with andrea mitchell.

she just gave a seminar on how to counter cindy mccain's attack and all of the other attacks percolating out there.

she was aggressive, she attacked cindy and john mccain, and she shut andrea mitchell up.

she stated flatly that the allegations were ridiculous and refused to be put into a defensive position where she was having to "explain" baracks very reasonable and simple actions.

a great job.

hopefully there is video of the interview.

Re: Desperation

MoeLarryAndJesus — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:46:32 -0000

freaktown writes: "i thought the line about, "Maybe Obama should wear my shoes for one day," was unnecessary. All i was thinking was "your shoes cost like 20 grand. ain't no way you'd let anyone else wear them.""

Plus they have to be specially made for her because she has 7 toes on each of her alien feet.

Re: Desperation

The Golux — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:29:51 -0000

With his campaign cratering, McCain has decided to start yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. I believe in free speech, but he, Cindy and the pit bull need a heaping helping of STFU.

Re: Desperation

freaktown — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:16:16 -0000

are we still allowed to comment on her $300,000 dollar dresses?

i thought the line about, "Maybe Obama should wear my shoes for one day," was unnecessary. All i was thinking was "your shoes cost like 20 grand. ain't no way you'd let anyone else wear them."

Re: Desperation

Persia — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:05:48 -0000

You got it, Deborah.

And good point, James. How can you think John McCain can negotiate effectively with North Korea, when he can't even hold his own against a fellow Senator?

Re: Desperation

James — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:04:51 -0000

Just to add myself to the list, Deborah, I wish you would start your own blog.

Re: Desperation

Deborah — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:02:38 -0000

Attacks like these are supposed to be done the day before the election in swing states, not all over the place weeks before so the opposition can respond to them.

Tactics versus strategy.

Re: Desperation

frankie d — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:59:44 -0000

"Can't the criticism focus on that and not her looks or past?"

looks?

definitely off-limits. totally irrelevant.

her past?

another story.

the first thing a lawyer does when presented with evidence or an argument is consider the past, the history, of the source.

that person's past will directly impact on the credibility of the information provided. anyone who considers statements and information and even physical evidence presented through that person is going to focus on that person's past.

who is he/she?

have they been credible in the past?

can we trust them now?

destroy the credibility of the person presenting an argument and you do not even have to address the substance of whatever they may be saying or arguing for.

this is exactly what republicans are trying to do to barack right now.

they understand that americans prefer his ideas and policies, so they are attempting to destroy his credibility, so that no matter what he says, no one will ever believe a word of it.

Re: Desperation

James — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:52:49 -0000

Persia,

The upside is that this is all they've got, and they know they are about to lose.

They're casting some blond women right now to claim her and Obama had an affair and made her pregnant and forced her to have an abortion.

That should read as satire, but I seriously wonder if they aren't lining something like this up. They've certainly considered it, with the vermin Tucker Eskew on the team.

I was very happy when Atwater got the brain tumor. When he died, I was delighted. But right now, I'm so relieved he's not around - because he actually knew what he was doing.

The incompetence which would be terrifying if McCain got elected is making sure he won't.

Re: Desperation

MoeLarryAndJesus — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:48:13 -0000

James writes: "Moe's invective isn't far away from what would be said for real by the GOP if the tables were turned."

It's exactly what the Limbaughs and Savages would be saying - every single day. That's why I use it. It's not that I actually give a damn about Cindy being a homewrecking whore - I figure McCain's first wife is better off without him, just like the country will be.

Re: Desperation

Persia — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:46:13 -0000

I'm seriously scared for Obama's safety right now. The Secret Service only has to be wrong once for somebody who has been listening to this bile to make himself famous.

I am on a knitting and crochet site-- let me repeat this, a knitting and crochet site-- where someone threatened Obama's safety. The person who told me about this said they replied with, 'haha, you're joking, right?' And the reply was 'no, not at all.' She reported the whole mess to the Secret Service, but it's scary as hell.

You know, not that I'm complaining, but it seems really fucking early to go this all-out. Attacks like these are supposed to be done the day before the election in swing states, not all over the place weeks before so the opposition can respond to them.

Re: Desperation

chrismealy — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:39:17 -0000

Does she expect Malia and Sasha go to Iraq? WTF?

Re: Desperation

frankie d — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:36:32 -0000

"I'm seriously scared for Obama's safety right now. The Secret Service only has to be wrong once for somebody who has been listening to this bile to make himself famous."

i agree with KevDog.

and i have to admit that i am surprised that they have been as blatant as they have been.

i fully expected a subterranean rumble that might have caused a few nuts out there to talk about "killing" obama.

but i never imagined that mccain and his veep and his wife would actually be out on the stump inciting people to take those actions.

it is clear what they are doing:

obama is a terrorist. (the clear message of the new mccain ad.)

he is dangerous for america.

he must be stopped.

what is that line that king henry supposedly said about beckett?

"Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?"

this is exactly what mccain is saying right now.

Re: Desperation

Deborah — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:36:04 -0000

Is there a rule in politics that says only the wives of Democratic candidates get a tough scrutiny?

Yes. At least since Kitty Dukakis, they are accused of being unAmerican. Usually of burning a flag, of which photos and video, like the mythical whitey video, are said to exist although no one ever quite find them.

Meanwhile Mr. Palin belonged to a secessionist party, and Mrs. Palin warmly addressed the party and was considered a supporter and possible member, and that's just fine. Republicans love their nation, donchaknow, even when they're planning to secede.

On Cindy McCain: It's a pretty painful video. She isn't cut out for this, and yet the McCain people sent her out there. Can't the criticism focus on that and not her looks or past? It's like a knee-jerk "ha ha Cindy said something but we won't listen to her because of this totally unrelated reason." If she's making a fool of herself on the stump, criticize that. The criticisms of her appearance and past could be tossed out for her brilliant presentation of a new Republican economic plan, with as much relevance.

Re: Desperation

Sarah — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:33:02 -0000

"It is definitely true that Republican wives of presidential nominees get a pass from the media."

Yeah, why is that? It's bizarre, Republican is the party of family values, right? So shouldn't they get more, not less, scrutiny?

In general, I'm for less scrutiny of all the spouses myself. I think I lost a bit of respect for Dean when he caved on the issue of his wife's visibility in the campaign. (Uggh, leave the woman alone if she does not want to be part of the process.) But Cindy McCain obviously wants to be part of the process, she's the attack dog now, so she should be held up to as much scrutiny as Michelle Obama.

Re: Desperation

lt — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:30:56 -0000

TNC -

I've appreciated your recent blogging a good deal, especially the recent posts on the 'racism without racists' question, and I especially want to thank you for deleting comments in this thread - more male lefty bloggers need to follow your lead.

Re: Desperation

James — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:27:52 -0000

I agree Liza, but it's also partly Democrats should attack in the way they've been attacked - otherwise the republicans will do it again and again.

Moe's invective isn't far away from what would be said for real by the GOP if the tables were turned.

Look at how 'babies daddy' played out.

I'm hoping that Obama shows that ultimately this stuff only works so far, but I think they should have been humiliating Cindy on a daily basis, and dig out some of the Brazilian women when John was in Rio, not to mention a couple of the wives of officers he conquered.

Get a whole heap of women looking frightened talking about when John lost his temper - like the woman in Puerto Rico.

It's like MAD - only when the both sides thinks their opponent can destroy them do they think about not using that weapon.

Re: Desperation

Liza — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:22:18 -0000

Whoops, make that "Republican wives of presidential nominees."

Re: Desperation

Liza — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:21:05 -0000

It is definitely true that Republican wives of presidents get a pass from the media.

If Michelle Obama had a past on par with that of Cindy McCain, then Obama could not be the Democratic nominee. It is just that simple.

Re: Desperation

KevDog — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:17:34 -0000

I'm seriously scared for Obama's safety right now. The Secret Service only has to be wrong once for somebody who has been listening to this bile to make himself famous.

I'd say McCain should be ashamed, but that's clearly not possible.

Re: Desperation

James — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:15:18 -0000

It would be unfair, and will probably be deleted to point out that if Cindy McCain's son is shot in Iraq, if he has some of his mum's old medication, at least he won't be in too much pain.

Re: Desperation

sharky — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:11:13 -0000

I have, in the next room, a pair of donated boots from a clothing drive I can send to Iraq. They're used, which depresses me. I wanted to buy boots to send to the troops on my own. But I can't afford them. I'm not sure they can use these, but I'm sending them because it's what was donated to me and it's what I've got.

C. McCain can afford to send boots and body armor and infrared rifle sights to her son and his entire platoon.

I have no sympathy.