The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Shygetz — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:28:35 -0000

People also can grow tobacco themselves, but few people do it. If pot was legal, it would be a major cash crop and companies would buy it, process it, and sell it just like tobacco. So I, too, think the whole "The man won't let you have it 'cause it's free" song and dance is on the wrong track. Byrk had it right: pot = hippie = anarchy, another issue in the culture war.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Byrk — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:35:36 -0000

The reason why marijuana is illegal, was backlash against the hippie/counter culture/anti-war movement.

Secondly, if pot was completely legal it would be commercialized and companies would make money. I don't buy the "nobody can make money" off of it conspiracy for why it's illegal. I know that you can grow it yourself, but people are too lazy. You can also brew your own beer fairly easily, but most people just buy it from the store.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

shecky — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:24:11 -0000

I still think it's interesting that Freddoso blames Prohibition era violence not on Prohibition, but on the proliferation of guns. As if he's never gotten the conservative pro gun memo that guns don't cause crime.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Bill Harris — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:00:17 -0000

Jim, you said it that something more could be done. It is not that hard. It can be done by a simple majority in each house. Everybody must work on their own representative, since legislators have zip-code spam filters. Also, if you can afford a stamp, you can send snail-mail to the House Subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Rights and Liberties. That would bring it to Obama's desk to sign off on, without letting it seem that it is his baby. It is repeal of the CSA of 1970. What the legislature has issued can be retracted by the same margin. No amendment was ever issued, so no two-thirds majorities or state ratifications come into play. Thank you all for what you have already done, and TIA for what you will do.

What service the government might provide to replace prohibiition, consistent with the Constitution, and available funding, is the real debate.

Bill

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Tom — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:25:06 -0000

Is it just me, or does Balko resemble Lobot?

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Max Socol — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:40:56 -0000

whoa folks, take it easy. Freddoso only just turned 14.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

wb44 — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:48:51 -0000

AHHHH

You all beat me to it. Bill Hicks (God rest his soul, Genius that he was) had it all right when it came to the hypocrisy of America and Pot.

I remember something to the effect of:

"You're at a game or a concert, having a nice time, then some asshole starts a fight with another asshole. WHAT DRUG ARE THEY ON?"

He went on to state that the only two drugs that are legal (Alcohol and tobacco) did NOTHING for you, while drugs like shrooms and pot, which make you realize how much you are being F-ed by the government and our capitalist system, are illegal.

I always loved the collective gasp when he told the crowd that their alcohol was a drug just like pot or coke. And while I am an ardent capitalist, he's makes a very good point. The herb kills your desire to be a cog in the wheel. Which is a good thing for the individual and a bad thing for the machine....

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Heather — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:38:02 -0000

I would love, LOVE, to see the debate against criminalization of small amounts of marijuana include the current occupant of the White House.

As Obama has stated, he used marijuana and inhaled (which "was the point"). His experience was the same experience as thousands of middle class kids of any race: he used, he got over it, he stopped. No big deal. Now if he had gotten caught? Huge deal. If there's a future Barack Obama floating around there, occasionally lighting up, who gets caught, he wouldn't BE the future Barack Obama. Hello criminal record, good-bye financial aid.

I can't think of any other criminal action with such a disparity between the ramifications of the criminal act and the ramifications of the legal consequences. Murder? Yeah, both causes a life to end. Heroin? Oh, yeah, your life gets screwed up either way. But having small amounts of marijuana? No big deal. Unless you get caught.

And SeanH:

I was listening to Bill Hicks' Oxford show, recorded the week that the first Bush lost to Clinton. So many things he said in that were still spot on (even more so in some instances). And to think what he could have done this past eight years... oh, I miss him.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

SeanH — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:49:38 -0000

I don't see why they can't do the same thing with marijuana for pete's sake.

I'm a believer in the late Bill Hicks' theory of why pot's illegal: The only reason it's illegal is that anyone with a bucket of dirt and a window can grow it. If you had to pay a corporation to get it it would be never have been illegal thanks to congress sucking up to weed lobbyists.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

P to the J — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:44:03 -0000

The argument of Fredosso of "I mainly know happy drunks" is as preposterous as it gets. I can say that I know people who get drunk and LIKE hitting people. I have yet to see a stoner smoke down and go out and rough people up. Like Chris Rock says, the government doesn't want you to NOT do drugs, they want you to do THEIR drugs. It is time for America to grow up and admit the truth that people are going to try to get messed up, no matter how or on what.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

SeanH — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:36:02 -0000

I'm not sure what's happening on the enforcement end of that...(how are they keeping track?, what gets you flagged?)

Don't know about CA, Tessa, but here in Iowa and Nebraska the data from each sale is entered into a database maintained by the state police. If a customer purchases too much at any store within a certain timeframe it's noted, counts as probable cause, and they can expect a visit soon from the cops. Same thing for any store that has flaky sales. I'm pretty sure states share access to each others' databases as well. At least IA and NE also require a signature just to make sure there's no "wasn't me" defense in court.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

CitizenE — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:30:38 -0000

As with most issues, looking for a simple black and white that covers everything--as do the current bi-partisanly institutional attitude about continuing the War on Drugs and some elements of those who wish for complete legalization--seems like an oversimplification.

However, marijuana laws are the elephant in the room in this discussion. There are scores of legal drugs far more pernicious, and the only reason that pot remains a gateway drug is that because it is falsely propagandized against some people are led to believe the whole rap on illegal drugs is overblown. I have seen first hand, albeit decades ago, the destruction wrought by speed, coke, and heroin; they are all like tobacco on a supersonic jet insofar as I can see. But it's hard to class marijuana in the same boat. The immediate boost to the economy of legalizing it, regulating its use, and taxing it have been well known for decades. However, the problem arises when we begin to see how many of our treaties with foreign nations include the prohibition of its cultivation there, how when big tobacco did some r&d on commercial cultivation they found no way to compete in product quality with Ma & Pa Humboldt County, and how much money is to be made by both the prison industry and mobs world wide by keeping it illegal. If the baby boom couldn't get it legalized, will future generations be able to?

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Daz — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:25:45 -0000

Co-sign AJ. TNC, I think you're being too generous to Freddoso.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

muzz al atesta — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:16:47 -0000

over here in europe it's actually quite interesting how different drug policies & strategies get road tested by different countries, and later everyone can check up on the results.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Tessa — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:15:51 -0000

As you may or may not know, all the manufacturers of decongestants containing pseudoephedrine had to change the formula because people were making meth out of it. There was an incident in Denton, Texas where a major pharamacy chain sold over $1M in decongestant in ONE day. Yes, true. Anyway, now in every state (I believe) if you want a nasal decongestant with pseudoephedrine, you have to ask for it at the counter and give your license# (had to do this the other day in CA). I'm not sure what's happening on the enforcement end of that...(how are they keeping track?, what gets you flagged?) but this is cold medicine we're talking about here. People go out and get shit-faced on alcohol, but they don't WRITE DOWN your license number when you get the booze.

Despite this trampling of my rights, I don't see why they can't do the same thing with marijuana for pete's sake. I'd gladly give over my license# in exchange for a few days worth of joints. Tell me what the limit is and I'll stick to it. If I go over, fine me. There. I just created two revenue sources for my municipality. And my neighbor with cancer sleeps through the night.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

Jim — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:08:08 -0000

I do believe something can be done, but it will take a long time to solve this crisis. The war on drugs won't work and legalizing it should have been done long ago.

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

sv — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:51:45 -0000

Balko 2016!

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

AJ in Boston — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:29:15 -0000

This Freddoso character sounds like a child. "I once saw a 400 lb. man writhing on the sidewalk." Wow. You're living on the wild side, dude!

Re: Culture 11 and the War on Drugs

TKOEd — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:27:51 -0000

Read Balko's piece. Very strong arguments. Had an email thread argument with my buddies about the war on drugs. Unfortunately one of my friends echoed what I think is the biggest obstacle in legalization: lots of people believe that the WOD has failed but they refuse to believe that legalization would be better or at the very least not any worse. As Balko lays it out, I can't see how legalization isn't better. Yes you still have addicts but then you don't have all the other stuff. The violence, the growing paramilitary police state, non-violent drug offenders being locked up at massive rates.