The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Stacy — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:38:52 -0000

I don't necessarily disagree with you, Jay, but let's not distort the facts. He accused him of being racist before the cuffs were ever put on him.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

JL — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:55:46 -0000

Oh, and also, to provide a bit more local context: With the quality of the doors and locks on many houses around here, I wouldn't think anything of someone struggling with a door unless they were exhibiting some sort of additional suspicious behavior. I was constantly struggling with the door at my old place.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

JL — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:50:35 -0000

Really, the fact that she works for Harvard Magazine (which you didn't mention here, but I've read elsewhere) makes the fact that she didn't recognize him more bothersome to me than if she had been a neighbor.

I live in a town that borders Cambridge. I previously lived in a different town that borders Cambridge. Other than the people upstairs at my previous apartment, who I already knew (they were former dormmates of mine), I sure didn't know any of my neighbors in either case. I wouldn't recognize any of them if I ran into them on the street. I wouldn't be able to pick any of them out of a lineup. Almost everyone I know living in Cambridge/Somerville/Arlington/Medford is in the same situation with their neighbors. People around here don't know or recognize each other just because they live on the same street or block. I didn't get the whole "OMG, how could his neighbor have not recognized him?! This is clear evidence that she's racist!" thing.

But with the information that she's not a neighbor, but an employee (with a reasonably high-profile job) of Harvard Magazine...you have a fairly high-profile for your institution's magazine, and you don't recognize one of your institution's most famous figures? I mean, this is not clear evidence of anything either, she might have just not gotten a good view of him. Or she might be bad at remembering faces. But it seems a LOT stranger to me, at least in a Cambridge context, than not recognizing a neighbor.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

dmf — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:49:04 -0000

that doesn't add up, cops make these kinds of risky on the fly choices all the time. again for cops there are no "safe" calls.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Deborah — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:34:07 -0000

The cop going into the house alone completely belies the "his life might be in danger" argument; if he thought that, he would have waited for backup.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

dmf — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:22:51 -0000

Let's be clear abut one thing here. Every time that the police arrive at a scene their lives are in danger. Police get shot/stabbed over everything and nothing. So their 1st order of business is to secure the scene which means to get everyone out in the open where nothing sneaky/dangerous can happen. That's why they want to see your hands for instance at traffic stops and may even ask you to step out of the car. In the account that I heard by Gates' rep. Gates not only refused to step out into the open but he went back into his house, out of sight of the officer, who to Gates' "surprise" followed him. If this is how it went down than this is more to the point of Gates' offense than anything that he could have said. Your 'right' to be free of being hassled in your house, which in these circumstances of a call being made doesn't exist, does not trump the safety of a police-person. Now should a cop be able to adjust to such a possible threat and get back to the business at hand when it becomes clear that things are ok, yes, and this is why back up is helpful to defuse such tensions. But the threat of violence goes both ways in these circumsatnces and so compliance with police procedure doesn't trump civil rights but it is a serious competing interest.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Hemmingplay — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:43:36 -0000

Wait: A Harvard professor is accused of being arrogant? Really? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

That aside, and from all the attention this incident has drawn, I come down on the side of believing that this is more about an officer who decided his personal authority was being challenged, and that it was less about race than about him being offended and over reacting.

Gates sounds like a typical professor to me, though. I work at a big U. and this sort of "I am the center of the universe" mentality is pretty common. And as someone observed above, this feels like a typical clash of class. The racial component is there, of course, but this sort of thing happens all the time. It just isn't subject of a question at a presidential press conference very often, that's all. And we all know why that is.

And I agree with one poster above: while I often do stupid things, I am not stupid enough to admit it very often.

Carry on.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

CK — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:28:13 -0000

AhYup: You do realize that breaking into someone's home, even your parents' home, is breaking the law, right? In addition, going 105 mph on the freeway is breaking the law. And yes, cops can take you to jail for speeding, even if they normally wouldn't. The differences between the examples you cite and Gates is that he was not breaking the law and he was in his own home. Those differences are not insignificant.

I'm sure some white person some where has gotten arrested for mouthing off to the cops before, but the examples you cite are not good ones.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

CK — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:22:19 -0000

I would agree if you said the media is lazy all the time. I don't think it's confined to summer!

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:13:41 -0000

Lyle,

This is the definition of racism:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

It's not a sin to be wrong, man. I do it all the time. It's not a sin to stop digging.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

sanjuroku — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:54:43 -0000

I think being disrespectful to cops is wrong and asking for it.

And that pretty much sums our fundamental difference.

I pay the guys salary, he has the power of life and death over me.

The restraint HAS to come from his end, and that seems so obvious to me that I don't know how to communicate it any better.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

sanjuroku — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:43:18 -0000

It matters because Gates made a racial issue of it.

I guess you and I have different views of what matters. What matters to me is bad policing and how to stop it.

I only speak for myself here, I have my own reasons for thinking very little of Prof. Gates none of which I care to share. I have zero interest in defending him (or attacking him).

Its not that I don't agree with what DaveinHackensack is saying - I just don't think it matters that much. What matters is that our communities need and deserve good police work - and crap like this is BAD police work.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

sanjuroku — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:35:01 -0000

Furthermore, the police officer did not "harass" Prof. Gates in his home. He was investigating a possible break in and asking Prof. Gates questions. That's not harassment, I think.

Being arrested for something that is not a crime is not harassment?

I guess we are getting nowhere here. Its obvious we aren't going to convince each other of anything.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Stacy — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:14:05 -0000

"Show me an instance where a rich white person was arrested under similar circumstances."

Sorry, Jay. I can't send you a link, but if you don't think rich white people get arrested for berating cops, then you've been missing out.

I'm white, and I've been falsely arrested for something more ridiculous than what happened with Gates. You will not convince white people that this crap doesn't happen to them when the first hand accounts are numerous. Cops treat most people like shit unless they kiss the badge. Period.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Stacy — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:08:38 -0000

Fair hypothetical, I think. I certainly think the reaction here would be slightly different, but that has to do with the history of this country.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Stacy — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:06:35 -0000

Your father sounds crazy/awesome.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Stacy — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:04:08 -0000

Being disrespectful to a cop means you are asking for it? Asking for what? To be arrested for a non-crime? That's insane. Being disrespectful to a cop may be 'wrong' in the sense that not tipping your server is 'wrong.' But it does not mean that you are asking to be arrested for bullshit.

No one said the cop 'harassed' Mr. Gates for coming to his home to investigate a possible break in. He harassed him by not leaving and asking him to step outside after Gates proved it was his home.

The cop's ego was hurt and he wanted to teach this asshole a lesson. He made a mistake. Mr. Gates made a mistake by assuming he was a racist.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Lyle7 — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:51:55 -0000

Guys,

If you don't get how Prof. Gates made racist comments to the police officer, you just don't get it. I'm probably not going to be able to convince you, but he made racist comments.

Projecting racism onto someone with a statement is racist. Accusing someone of racism when they've done nothing to warrant such comments, that is racist. Prof. Gates made racist comments towards the police officer. That's the truth. It doesn't matter if he was wrong about it or had good reason to say what he said, it was racist.

He doesn't even know the man and he's like "bigoted white cop". Racism!!!

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

Lyle7 — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:45:30 -0000

Man, I have to disagree. I think being disrespectful to cops is wrong and asking for it. It's shameful to demean any human being, especially because of the job they're doing.

Furthermore, the police officer did not "harass" Prof. Gates in his home. He was investigating a possible break in and asking Prof. Gates questions. That's not harassment, I think.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

DaveinHackensack — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:37:06 -0000

It was a stupid arrest. I don't think much more needs to be said.

It's a little late in the day to say that though, isn't it? Gates made this a racial issue, and race is why the president commented on this and why it has generated so much attention. In reality though, a white man acting the way Gates did would likely have gotten arrested too. Gates having a big chip on his shoulder about being "a black man in America" is just exhausting at this point. He's not riding in the back of the bus in the segregated South. He's a Harvard professor who summers in Martha's Vineyard and lives in a city, state, and country run by black people who were elected by white majorities. And, for the cherry on top, the top law enforcement official in America is black. Maybe it's time for Gates to take the chip off of his shoulder.

I'm not even sure if it was a stupid arrest. It was a borderline arrest. There are laws on the books that let cops arrest you for essentially being worked-up and obnoxious, and, in the scheme of things -- even though it may rub us the wrong way as civil libertarians -- that's probably a good thing. Sometimes people need to have some bracelets put on them and be taken downtown, to prevent them from hurting themselves or others in their agitated state.

Here's a handy tip to avoid getting arrested (or shot) in the future: be polite and non-threatening to the cop. When I've gotten pulled over by cops, I put my hands on top of the steering wheel, palms up. It doesn't cost me anything to do that. If the cop asks for my registration, I tell him it's in my glove compartment and say, "I'm going to reach for it, OK?". Again, costs me nothing, and they appreciate my consideration. The last couple of times they let me off without tickets, probably because of that. If I had an attitude or a chip on my shoulder, I definitely would have gotten tickets and possibly worse.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

msully72 — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:37 -0000

At least according to the police report's side of things, Gates was yelling racism from the time the officer asked for ID.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

cham — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:44:44 -0000

Professor Gates does not need this for self-promotion. His career has done that for him.

I'm surprised more right-wing gun nuts have not taken this up as their cause--the police state invading a private home. If only Dr. Gates had been a redneck in a trailer park in Texas.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

AhYup — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:09:16 -0000

"There is no reason why the incident with Gates should have ended with an arrest and jail-time. "

Indeed. But growing up white trash I can't count the number of times I saw white fools bringing trouble on themselves by mouthing off to irritable cops. It happens all the time.

No, they had no good reason to arrest him. But he was still being a racist asshole.

I'm reminded more than anything of all those times I've heard of some paranoid white supremacists getting hauled off to jail for nothing more than pissing cops off going on and on like a paranoid lunatic when they showed up on their property for something completely unrelated to their hysterical fears.

We've heard a lot more about the ones where the paranoid guy starts shooting but cases like this big and small happen a lot. Most of the time I've heard about an older upper class white guy getting hauled off after going off on cops like Gets did it involves road rage in their fancy mid-life crisis car. But still there is nothing exceptional here but Gate's flair for self promotion.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

adina — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:40:47 -0000

Once, when I was about 11 years old, I saw a (white) guy using a crowbar to get into a neighbor's house. My parents weren't home, so I called my friend's mom, who called the police. Turns out that it was really my neighbor, who worked in construction (hence, the crowbar), who had been locked out of his house. I know that the Gates story is completely different (no crowbar...), but I wouldn't blame the woman for calling about what looked like someone messing with the lock. I do, however, blame the cop, for dealing with the situation in every wrong way. The incident with my neighbor ended up with a full explanation and everyone going on their way, and probably some friendly laughs. There is no reason why the incident with Gates should have ended with an arrest and jail-time.

Re: Clarification On The Woman Who Called The Cops

AhYup — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:37:33 -0000

"Show me an instance where a rich white person was arrested under similar circumstances."

A guy I knew in college with the last name "Forbes" got arrested breaking into his parents summer home and being total asshole when the cops showed up. My daughters boyfriend with the wealthy architect father got arrested for being an obnoxious jerk after he got pulled over going 105mph on the freeway. It happens all the time everywhere between all kinds of different people who think their shit doesn't stink and cranky cops who think everyone stinks.

"The arrest was unwarranted as no law had been broken. Therefore it was a false arrest."

Yes, and it happens a lot. Yawn.

"As Gates was most certainly aware that he had committed no crime claiming"

He was arrested for going off like a paranoid lunatic claiming that the cops were only there because they weren't black like him.

Sorry, that's racist period. Its a stupid, illogical conclusion based on erroneous racial assumptions in a situation where the most obvious conclusion is that someone way somebody trying to break into a house.