The Atlantic - Latest Comments in BSG And Gender Politics

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

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Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:13:23 -0000

Anthony,

Thanks for using blockquotes. I think you've made your case, and I've made mine. People can look through both and see what they find convincing and what they don't. You've made the case that I've "deliberately" misread you and that I'm "misleading people." That's your contention. I think I'll leave it to the readers to decide. I wouldn't want to misrepresent you anymore.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Anthony — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:44:18 -0000

I just wanted to say that I--the Anthony that responded, briefly, to Daphne above--am not the same person as the anthony who tendentiously quotes TNC back at himself and reminds him of his post's title.

That is all.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

anthony — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:22:02 -0000

Fine. Let's play the quote game.

I don't think I even mentioned feminism in this entire piece.

Excuse me, but you titled the piece "BSG and Gender Politics." I was using feminism and gender politics interchangeably, which isn't totally kosher because gender politics includes more than feminism, but either way my statement is and was this: I think you're watering-down gender politics in your a-contextual reading of the depiction of gender (and specifically sexual violence) in BSG, which I addressed by giving an in-text (close) reading of BSG (to which you never respond). In your comments, you seem to have left the post title, "BSG and Gender Politics," behind and taken up a different argument: violence in BSG is an aesthetic problem of bad writing. That's not the point I'm speaking to. Instead, I'm speaking to your political argument (which I go into below). If you didn't intend to and don't think you've made a political point, you need to rename the post.

I charged strawman because my original post does not say I'm looking for a show that ignores rape, nor does it say that "the depiction of rape is too "casual" and is just "nihilism."

Actually, this is precisely what you said:

The part of the piece I found most convincing is the indictment of the rather casual way rape is deployed in the series.

And in fact this is your political point, and the one I'm interested in, because it's an a-contextual indictment of something that's actually positive (explained in my reading, which is also quoted below). You're entitled to what you think is good and bad writing. I'm not here to argue aesthetics. It doesn't bother me at all that you don't enjoy BSG.

These next two quotes seem to me to be the rest of your political point:

I think the writing, and acting, on the show is rather lackluster (skipping ahead in time, at the end of season, was incredibly lazy). When narrative isn't done in a particularly inspiring fashion, it seems that the first people to suffer are women, and minorities.

I don't mind you disliking the writing, but you have yet to show how the depiction of rape causes women to suffer. I'm arguing that it's helpful because

by showing how rape unequally harms women and is a common torture technique, Battlestar actually works to effect a positive change at a critical moment.

You rehash your point in your update:

More aptly put, when the writing is bad, the writing of women and minorities tends to be really bad--or really just stand out.

To answer these quotes, let me point you back to my reading, which, unlike your writing, uses examples from the show:

First of all, one must take into account that, from the point of view of the rapists, Athena and Gina (the 2 cylons whose rapes you describe) are machines, not women, and they're machines who contributed substantially to the genocide of the human race. Kara is a human, but the cylons imprison and attempt to inseminate her because they envy and wish to emulate human reproduction--a central conflict in the show. Kara's is a systematic and not a casual rape, and it is a different kind of rape altogether.

Gina became Admiral Cain's lover in order to infiltrate and sabotage the human military. Gina used sex in order to do violence; when they caught Gina, Cain responded by doing the same thing. Also, with both Gina and Athena, rape was used as part of a program of torture carried out to gather intelligence. In neither case is rape casual. And Gina, with the help of a human who is appalled by her rape, ultimately murders Admiral Cain.

Please do me the respect of responding to THIS PART of my writing, if you're familiar enough with the show that the examples are clear for you.

Now let's finish the quote game. At the risk of repeating myself repeating you, you said:

I charged strawman because my original post does not say I'm looking for a show that ignores rape, nor does it say that "the depiction of rape is too "casual" and is just "nihilism."

But actually you said in a comment:

The point isn't that rape isn't used in war and conflict. It also isn't that it shouldn't be used on television shows. It's when evil comes easy comes easy--much like when good comes easy--it loses its power. When it's everywhere, it's nowhere. It's no longer shocking, jarring or disturbing. It simply nihilistic.

Despite this contradiction, you for some reason said:

Again, I think your summary ("You claimed the depiction of rape is too 'casual' and is just 'nihilism.'") falls short of what I actually wrote.

But actually, that's exactly what you wrote, as I've just displayed in quoting you. I know you're more proud of your point about aesthetics, but it's your political point I'm interested in. Discussing why we do or don't like something is, as you say, just opinion and something we can do all day. Discussing the politics of the show (the point of your post, if you really intended the title) is a little more firm and can be explored by a comparison of examples, which is all I'm trying to do. Can we agree on that?

Now, here's your infamous misreading of what I said:

If you want a war show that ignores the horrors of rape, skirts the unequal way in which rape harms women, and forgets that rape is a central tool in the torturer's toolkit, then go watch Voyager, because at least you'll still be watching a good show.

I interpret that as meaning I want "a war show that ignores the horrors of rape, skirts the unequal way in which rape harms women, and forgets that rape is a central tool in the torturer's toolkit." Is that fair a interpretation or isn't it? If not please, specifically point out what I've missed.

Any fool can see you're deliberately misreading me here. I simply said if you can't appreciate the truly courageous way BSG exposes and undercuts the reality of sexual violence, then don't watch it, and don't mislead people about what BSG is doing, either. In this statement, I'm (I think clearly) rhetorically suggesting that you overlook the powerful, positive political impact of BSG's use of rape, and instead seem to think it's bad politics (please recall that you titled the post "BSG and Gender Politics"). (Titles count, you know.)

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

R.oB. — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:58:08 -0000

Scott II:

I warned you, TNC. It's a trap. Attempting to engage fandom regarding your disappointment in a series will result only in more whining and convoluted attempts to try to prove that you are "objectively" wrong or don't mean what you say you mean or that you're hypocritical. They're trolls. And I say this as somebody who actually likes BSG. The worst part of sci-fi is always the fans.

TNC in reply:

Scott,

It won't happen again. There are plenty of boards to debat sci-fi and BSG. I'll leave it to them. Up and down this board are people debating. We can argue up one side and down the other about whatever--Big Love, Terrell, African-Americanisms, Europeanization, The Watchmen, whatever. But the tone here borders on the religious. If we don't value each other's opinion, I'm not sure why we're talking.

That's the price you pay for talking about things people care about. I have never discussed anything where emotions are strong where the tone isn't a bit rugged. The tone gets "religious" or "political" or whatever non-empirical ethos you pick. I think the point is can we as a group take it without flying apart. I've "had words" with my wife, I still love her and still want the rest my life to be joined with her.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:03:41 -0000

Anthony,

One way to avoid being charged with strawmanning is to quote what the person said, as opposed to summarizing. For instance, you write:

You consistently claim you're being straw-manned by the comments to your post. I don't see where I said that you said rape can't be depicted

Here is your original post:

If you want a war show that ignores the horrors of rape, skirts the unequal way in which rape harms women, and forgets that rape is a central tool in the torturer's toolkit, then go watch Voyager, because at least you'll still be watching a good show.

I interpret that as meaning I want "a war show that ignores the horrors of rape, skirts the unequal way in which rape harms women, and forgets that rape is a central tool in the torturer's toolkit." Is that fair a interpretation or isn't it? If not please, specifically point out what I've missed. With that interpretation I responded with the following:

With all due respect, I find it incomprehensible that you would read my post--a post wherein I actually cite a rape scene I "liked"--and actually conclude that I'm arguing for scrubbing rape out of the series. I don't deserve your agreement. But I also don't deserve to be strawmanned.

I charged strawman because my original post does not say I'm looking for a show that ignores rape, nor does it say that "the depiction of rape is too "casual" and is just "nihilism." It says this:

I found that rape scene with Sharon, particularly disturbing--and not in a good way. I'll be honest--I have yet to put my finger on why. It wasn't because I like the character. Joan, from Mad Men, is one of my favorites. But I thought the rape-scene with her and her husband was troubling in the exact opposite way. I don't know how to explain it except in the following, admittedly creepy, language--it felt necessary and organic, given who the characters were.

On BSG, evil comes so easy. So much of it passes without explanation or context. The rape scene with Sharon left me horrified--but not at what had just happened to this woman. Indeed, I felt almost no sympathy for her. It was like watching a sadistic cartoon, or something. And that made me really angry and ultimately horrified that someone would write a scene like that.

Again, you don't have to agree with that. But I'd ask you to confront it. Point out, specifically, what you disagree with there. Or perhaps you don't disagree with that, maybe it's what I said in comments, like this:

The point isn't that rape isn't used in war and conflict. It also isn't that it shouldn't be used on television shows. It's when evil comes easy comes easy--much like when good comes easy--it loses its power. When it's everywhere, it's nowhere. It's no longer shocking, jarring or disturbing. It simply nihilistic. But nihilism is just as boring as earnestness.

The theme that people can easily descend into the barbaric is old and unremarkable. It's story that makes it new. It's compelling character, narrative, and dramatization that reinvents.

Again, I think your summary ("You claimed the depiction of rape is too 'casual' and is just 'nihilism.'") falls short of what I actually wrote. My argument is that "awful happens in war" is a rather banal point--it's an ancient theme of literature going back to the Homer. Story is the engine. Story is what makes it new. Without that you have nihilism--or earnestness.

One last thing:

Please, don't water-down feminism with knee-jerk off-text readings of some the realist stuff on television.

I don't think I even mentioned feminism in this entire piece. There's a reason for that--frankly, in this context, I don't much care about feminism. I just want to see a good story. There are a lot of people here who think BSG is exactly that, which is fine. I just want us to be sure about what we're arguing about. I can only do that if I read what you write. There's no point in yelling past each other.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Thomas R — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 01:52:23 -0000

"rape on BSG is about control, and not attraction" Seth

TR: Respectfully I think it's a bit of both. Offhand I can't think of any "plain-looking" character who's been raped on BSG. Maybe Starbuck, but I think that's even disputable. (Disputable as being rape, as such, as well as her being plain)

Granted part of that is because TV actresses very rarely are plain-looking, but the female characters raped are explicitly intended to be attractive. As someone else mentioned their looks are commented on by the rapists. Personally I do think it's possible the Pegasus boys saw the Cylons as something like sex-toys and did consider it to be sexual as well as revenge. (As mentioned there's a good deal of, fairly explicit, cases of characters mixing violence/hatred with sexual desire. Although not all who do that are male as Tory Foster does something like that to Baltar)

Granted for Cain, the woman who ordered the rape, it is just about control and vengeance. I think it's quite likely she found the Cylon-rapers repulsive, similar to guys who have sex with chickens or something, but useful for her control/vengeance deal.

And the other thing mentioned is it's very hard to know who to sympathize with in this series. Athena is fairly sympathetic, but she does assassinate the leader of a potential ally. Gina is a rape victim who earns some sympathy, but she's also a generally loyal and competent agent for the Cylon goal of wiping out humanity. Ultimately she does nuke an entire vessel killing many people and leading to their occupation. (Although the nature of the show makes it where I'm not sure wiping out humanity is necessarily seen as indefensible. To be honest oftentimes I found myself thinking that if this is humanity than the Cylons have a rational case for euthanizing it)

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

rufustfyrfly — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:39:19 -0000

I definitely agree on the depiction of sexual assault in BSG. TV is a medium that, save for a very small number of exceptions (The Wire, Mad Men, and not much else) is 'gloriously and righteously dumb,' to paraphrase Fake-Lester Bangs. It just doesn't make sense to try to examine something as brutal, easily sensationalized, and triggering as rape on pretty much any normal TV show, BSG included.

TV writers: know your limits. Really. If you aren't absolutely sure that you can keep it from sliding into torture porn and trivialization, then don't do it. That includes you, Joss Whedon.

I think you're crazy for comparing Battlestar to The Wire and Mad Men, though. That's like taking every book you read and comparing it to Shakespeare, or expecting every meal to be filet mignon. I would love it if someone made a scifi/fantasy show with that level of writing and acting, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

anthony — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:38:55 -0000

You claimed the depiction of rape is too "casual" and is just "nihilism." I explained that by showing how rape unequally harms women and is a common torture technique, Battlestar actually works to effect a positive change at a critical moment.

You consistently claim you're being straw-manned by the comments to your post. I don't see where I said that you said rape can't be depicted, but I certainly see how you avoid discussion with every other commentator by doing an "i said, you said, don't disrespect me" game, which is the real strawman in this sinking-ship discussion.

Please, don't water-down feminism with knee-jerk off-text readings of some the realist stuff on television.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

4jkb4ia — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:47:31 -0000

Comments from the peanut gallery aka husband: BSG could have been a lot better instead of the weekly soap. It was too narrow, too little space exploration and things like the Ship of Lights that Richard Hatch wanted to do. As far as the rape no comment.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:10:03 -0000

"If you want a war show that ignores the horrors of rape, skirts the unequal way in which rape harms women, and forgets that rape is a central tool in the torturer's toolkit, then go watch Voyager, because at least you'll still be watching a good show."

With all due respect, I find it incomprehensible that you would read my post--a post wherein I actually cite a rape scene I "liked"--and actually conclude that I'm arguing for scrubbing rape out of the series. I don't deserve your agreement. But I also don't deserve to be strawmanned. Like I said--we can debate all day. I'd simply ask that you respect the argument as I made it.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

anthony — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:45:43 -0000

I want to add more context to the rape scenes you mention in order to flesh-out a reading of them.

First of all, one must take into account that, from the point of view of the rapists, Athena and Gina (the 2 cylons whose rapes you describe) are machines, not women, and they're machines who contributed substantially to the genocide of the human race. Kara is a human, but the cylons imprison and attempt to inseminate her because they envy and wish to emulate human reproduction--a central conflict in the show. Kara's is a systematic and not a casual rape, and it is a different kind of rape altogether.

Gina became Admiral Cain's lover in order to infiltrate and sabotage the human military. Gina used sex in order to do violence; when they caught Gina, Cain responded by doing the same thing. Also, with both Gina and Athena, rape was used as part of a program of torture carried out to gather intelligence. In neither case is rape casual. And Gina, with the help of a human who is appalled by her rape, ultimately murders Admiral Cain.

Rape happens in war. Battlestar is a show about war between humans and machines. And the people who commit or attempt rape on the show are clearly, transparently bad guys. If you want a war show that ignores the horrors of rape, skirts the unequal way in which rape harms women, and forgets that rape is a central tool in the torturer's toolkit, then go watch Voyager, because at least you'll still be watching a good show.

With a bogus "war on terror" harming men, women, and trans people all over globe, I believe we need and deserve a drama that depicts what really happens in war. I'm happy the creators of Battlestar Galactica think so, too.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

AC — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:48:43 -0000

attraction or control?

Prior to the attempted rape scene under discussion, rapists have lines about how the attrative the victim is and how much fun they had with another.

In the other attempted rape scene that I remember, the perp is clearly sexually frustrated. If anything, it's the perp who is being controlled and enslaved.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

AC — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:35:28 -0000

@sharky

The scene was not set up to portray a "you can't rape a machine" mindset. That was a legalistic justification for rape as well as a cover story for those who did not support rape but did not dare to oppose it either.

It was clearly perceived as rape by the characters. The writers made a point of showing a "human" rape victim distressed by macho talk about using the "machine" as a sex slave.

The ostensible purpose of the rape from the point of view of the perps was to "break her in" prior to making the victim available as the ship's sex slave.

The actual purpose, so far as I can make it, was fourfold: dehumanizing the victim, sadistic gratification, revenge and terrorism. Although the head rapist was portrayed as a control freak, the victim was already under total control in the first place so that could hardly have been a motive.

Public rape was reserved for "machines" but "people" (military and civilian) were executed without cause, tortured and publically humiliated under that commanding officer's reign of terror.

If anything, the scene was set up to portray a sadistic, authoritarian mindset. There were enough scenes doing the same thing that this one could have been avoided.

But the attempted rape was of course also a plot device.

I think the attempted rape allowed them to show a bit of the abuse process without showing anything too distasteful as well. The repeated raping of another character was a very important plot device but thankfully nothing was shown. Perhaps the writers felt they would make it more real for some viewers by showing something similar happening to another character.

They could obviously have written a different story which didn't involve rape. But that one did...

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Persia — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:58:24 -0000

Daphne, I think the Spike Lee and Woody Allen references were toward both writer-director's tendencies to use female characters as plot devices, not active characters in their own right.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Seth — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:47:42 -0000

Sharky darling, I was ranting at Lemmy, not you. I apologize if I didn't parse as I should have. Objectively, every instance that I can remember of rape on BSG is about control, and not attraction - not in the slightest. I'd love a counter-example from the show, but until someone gives one I still maintain that some of you dolphins are talking out of your blowholes.

And Sharky, I'm pleased as punch that you can write at your own discretion. I just find it amusing that you and other folks never allow anyone else their own discretion. Ultimately I grant that that's (obviously) your option as an audience member rather than showrunner, writer, or producer. But again, I want you to realize that that is your own personal choice - it's not some objective commandment of narrative, and to some people it seems as silly and absurd as refusing to write about genocide. Just because you don't want to see it and examine it doesn't mean others shouldn't/don't.

I'd love to know if you people kvetched this heartily about The Sopranos, in particular the turbulent life of Dr. Melfi - or about the women in Mad Men. If you protest whenever television shows and movies essentialize Muslim women into silent, supplicated ciphers wearing veils. Battlestar isn't those shows, but it is a character drama, and just because you ACTIVELY CHOOSE to ignore the nuance/moral ambiguity doesn't mean it isn't there. Peace ya'll; I've been watching Meet the Press and David Gregory and Newt Gingrich are hurting my head. I gotta get out of here... have a nice lazy Sunday, TNC peoples.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

matoko_chan — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:37:49 -0000

TNC....women, children, minorities....and cylons.

What do these groups have in common?

Subordinate in power and control?

The cylons were built to be slaves, right?

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Anthony — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:35:43 -0000

Daphne--I think the original series stopped a lot of people from giving the new BSG a chance. That's really a shame, as it has nothing to do, really, with the original, and is a thoughtful and mature series. I hope you'll give it a chance on DVD (where I think it holds up better than on a week-by-week basis).

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Daphne — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:03:41 -0000

Ta-Nehisi,

I don't watch BSG.It was on for a while here in Europe, but it is gone now. I did watch the original, back when, and that is sort of enough. So this is essentially not a thread for me.

But your point in general is very interesting. Can you please elaborate on what you want to say considering Spike Lee and Woody Allen and their female characters?

I just don't get what you mean...

Maybe it's my English... Sorry about that.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

sharky — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:56:04 -0000

"Have you ever written anything fictional (aside from all your other comments, that is) - do you understand the concept of narrative? Of imagination? Of ingenuity?"

Yep! Although I'm not sure where my other comments are fictitious. Since they're... talking about physiology and the underreported state of male rape. And yes, that was meant to carry the point home with humor.

I believe you're simplifying a little too far; this isn't about your canon as a piece of entertainment/art. This is about a cultural phenomenon that many people are more than weary of that shows up again in your canon. It's about a show that says the same thing we've heard a million times before... just set on a different ship.

And yes, I have created a variety of situations and written about emotional abuse, sexual abuse, even a fanfic piece including torture. I do not see a situation where the setting and material force me to write rapes. It has to do with me being the author; I can write at my discretion. -.-

Also, a note on the internal logic. It's been asked before, but if the scene was set up to portray the mindset of "you can't rape a machine..." why were they? That seems to be mistaking the purpose behind rape (control) for the media one (attraction.) Which is, surprise, another bit of cultural misinformation women are tired of having broadcast.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Thomas R — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 04:55:46 -0000

Too much to catch up with so if I'm repeating something someone else said, apologies.

I'm not really any kind of feminist, but I think there's some truth in the criticism. The main thing for me being the Cylons. The female Cylons, all of them, are highly sexualized/seductive in a way the male Cylons just aren't. They seduce/love both men and women. Exempting D'Anna they tend to be downright needy for men. The male Cylons, not even Tyrol who some female viewers apparently do find attractive, are not precisely seductive in any way. Leoben is maybe closest to being like the females, he desperately wanted Starbuck to love him, but mostly he's seen as borderline loony and not as a kind of seductive/sexy figure.

It could be said this is because of the Cylons' espionage needs, (if you ignore their recently explained origins) but one of the Sixes seduced a female starship captain. Wouldn't it be just as likely, or moreso, that you could seduce a female starship captain with a guy than with a gal? I mean did they know 30/40 years in advance that the main female starship captain would be a lesbian?

A good deal of the Cylons seem to me to be playing on the, sometimes borderline pornographic, sexual fantasies of men. That the women are strong and dominating certainly doesn't go against that. In fact many of the female characters seem to fit a kind of dominatrix theme, right down to Caprica Six literally beating Tigh up before sexing him up. For the other kind of fantasy there's also a consensual three-way relationship that's two women plus Baltar and Baltar's harem. Except for a few scenes of guys in towels I don't think any female fantasies are really played to or at least not to the same extent.

At the same time I think they want to have it both ways. They want to play on adolescent male sexual fantasies and, simultaneously, critique or even condemn them. I'll have to admit sometimes that works, but it does make me queasy at times.

What mitigates this, in a way, is that the show is often simply misanthropic. The males aren't sex fantasies, but they're not ideal at all. Mostly they'd all be really screwed up, exempting maybe Helo, even if the genocide never happened. The Tigh/Adama friendship they tout has long involved a mix of alcohol and deep hurting. Individually Tigh and Adama are tormented people with histories of deep psychological dysfuncions. The men sometimes have "stereotyped male vices" as much as the women have stereotypes female ones. (Authoritarianism, excessive aggression, etc) In some ways the things I listed about the women are also commentaries on how perverse/disgusting men "really are" at base when robbed of civilization.

I have something of a love/hate view of this show. I find it addictive, but oftentimes I find its flirtation with gloom and misanthropy grating.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Seth — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 03:50:12 -0000

Jesse M: And you don't think the Pegasus crew were a good example of what Galactica and the rest of the fleet could've become if their leaders hadn't been Adama and Roslin? I think the lack of ambiguity, the lack of nuance, the lack of any hesitation to do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons is what set the Pegasus apart from the Galactica, and underscored the fragility of noble hearts. You're missing the point: the Pegasus as a ship was entirely separated from its humanity in more than just the physical way. It's not the most subtle point, but it's another bleak shade on the canvas that has been painted of our silly little species over time on the show.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Klaus — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:19:03 -0000

i09 has the definitive take-down of the Slate article: http://io9.com/5165920/the-men-who-make-battlestar-galactica-feminist

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Jesse M. — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:57:14 -0000

Anything that happens in a show is a 'plot device.' It's not a pejorative. Make an argument here.

You ignored the main argument of my post about how typically shows make use of the rape of females but not rape of males because the emotions the former provokes in male viewers are more simple, black-and-white, and self-righteous. And on a related note, if you're going to use rape as a plot device, at least use it for something more subtle than making the audience boo and hiss at the rapist (in the case of the raped Pega-six at least they took some time to show the long-term psychological damage that had been done to her). I don't really think the rape plots introduced much moral complexity to the show since the Pegasus leaders were pretty obviously fascistic villains, not sympathetic characters driven to do bad things by circumstances. Not that they weren't entertaining villains, but I never really felt any ambiguity about the fact that their actions were obviously wrong.

Re: BSG And Gender Politics

Seth — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:23:27 -0000

Jesse M.: Anything that happens in a show is a 'plot device.' It's not a pejorative. Make an argument here.

Is it easy to throw in and stir the pot? Yes. But when it's humans - Colonial guards, who are supposed to be the good guys - raping Cylon women, then it introduces a bit of *ahem* MORAL COMPLEXITY to the show. It uses the gut reaction of "rapists are awful people" to turn our expectations of how people in authority (or just the "civilized ape" of humanity in general) should behave. I don't think that can be so easily dismissed, because I think BSG does a clever job of making "good guys" do bad things and "bad guys" do good things.

Scott II: That Helo scene was most certainly rape, and it was most certainly one of the most Shakespearean moments on that show.

Brian made some v.v. good points as well. The objects of rape on the show are almost uniformly Cylon women, who along with the other Cylons are almost uniformly (up until this season) tortured, beaten, humiliated, and shamed because they are of the Cylon race and most of the Fleet still see them as nothing but the enemy.

If you folks had really seen the show, we'd be on to a discussion about the racial and religious commentary of the show, rather than this sick obsession with rape. Battlestar Rapelactica it is, I guess.