The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Blaming The Writers

Re: Blaming The Writers

anna perez — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:18:12 -0000

Marcos, I never underestimate the power of food and I've eaten a few craft services meals in my time. It's just that the few times I've visited film sets, often the only people of color I saw were "craftys." Now, that's a good thing, mind you. I just wish other jobs were available as well.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Lemmy Caution — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:26:36 -0000

Marcos, the difference between the movie biz and the music biz is that in the movie industry, people make crap knowing it's crap, but knowing that there's money to be made in crap. A lot of people in the industry are creating works that they themselves wouldn't consume.

But in the music industry, they really seem to believe that their crap isn't crap. I'm not sure which is worse.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Marcos El Malo — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:30:29 -0000

Well put, both of you.

One nit, though anna. You weren't putting down crafty in your previous comment (about how the number of black people employed by the show), were you? As an under-the-line guy (retired), I always felt that crafty was the most underrated of departments, even more than sound. On one show (many years ago), a very smart UPM stopped us from organizing by upgrading crafty. I've seen unhappy talent mollified by crafty. Don't underestimate the power of food. It's one of the cheaper ways that producers can show that they at least pretend to care.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Marcos El Malo — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:10:07 -0000

Close. In TV, show creators and show runners tend to have more power than writers. Writers tend to be staff positions, although the head writer might also be a producer. But even the show creators and runners are under the thumb of the networks and the execs.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Marcos El Malo — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:03:39 -0000

One of my favorite jokes about the powerlessness of the writer goes like this:

A writer arrives home one day to find that his house is on fire. The fire department is already there, but it's pretty much already been burned to the ground. As he gets out of his car, he is intercepted by a neighbor, who prevents him from running onto the scene.

Writer: What happened? My God, what happened? Where's my family?

Neighbor: Please, you need to sit down. About an hour ago, your agent showed up. Apparently he murdered your wife and children with a butcher knife. He murdered your dog, too. Then he dragged their corpses out on to the lawn and began having sex with them. Afterwards, he doused everything with gasoline, lit it on fire, and drove of laughing.

Writer: What? My agent came to my house? I don't believe it!

Re: Blaming The Writers

Marcos El Malo — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:56:47 -0000

The whole business is rotten . . .

The one saving grace of the movie biz, the one thing that keeps it from being the deepest of cesspools is that at least it's not the music biz.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Marcos El Malo — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:49:18 -0000

You need to understand something basic to writers in Hollywood. You don't get meetings with execs or writing jobs based on any sort of integrity or artistic merit. You get meetings and jobs based on how much money your movies have made, particularly your last movie (and other factors that have nothing to do with writing talent).

Re: Blaming The Writers

socgrad — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:11:54 -0000

So I know this is tangential to the immediate topic, but someone brought up the question two days ago about how a white writer could write characters of color convincingly (I'm behind on my TNC reading). I just wanted to point out two books (both sci fi) that had black main characters that I thought were written very well: Forever Peace by Joe Haldeman and Beggars and Choosers by Nancy Kress. In both of these books, I think the writers were able to show the characters as black but also multi-dimensional, neither whitewashed or reduced to stereotype.

Particularly in Forever Peace, the main character's race and his relationship with a white woman were part of the story, and I thought Haldeman was really able to show the black character's awareness of race in little, everyday interactions without it being overplayed. In most books I've read where a white writer writes a black character there is usually a moment(s) where I'll read something (usually about race or race relations) and think: "uhm, that's not how most any black person would see the situation". I really didn't have that moment in Forever Peace. It was eerie.

Anyway, the comment is "kinda" related to Transformers and the minstrelbots...

Re: Blaming The Writers

anna perez — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:37:24 -0000

OGwiseman, as a former direct report to Micheal Ovitz during his pinnacle of influence in showbiz at CAA, I think you are exactly right. Big ($) Hollywood movies possibly have more corporate oversight than ever. Even the "studio system" of the 30's, and 40's was run by relatively few folks. Today, first weekend gross is paramount (excuse the pun) and taking a "risk" as it is defined by the numbers crunchers, on any level, is a deal breaker. The entertainment business model is way different. "Show biz" has to support a way more expensive business. Folks still want to make pots of cash but there are fewer folks who need (or want) to make good movies while doing so.

That said, many of the best movies ever made ("Casablanca"} and the worst (can't remember 'em) were written (at least in part) by many uncredited writers. "The Player" is a great example of where the movie biz still is today, but i go back to "Sunset Blvd" as one of the best writer's laments (How do i love thee, Billy Wilder, let me count the ways. ) Today, except for a very few writers, most can and should take the money and run. I do not slam the "Transformers 2" writers, first because I am going to wait until I can see the flick on my sunk cost big tv and paid tv but mostly because I hope they remember this experience if and when they get big enough to go "Homey the Clown" on these MF's and say "I don't think so."

Re: Blaming The Writers

DB Cooper — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:22:22 -0000

Guy said he's not easily offended, but could see how some people might be. Said, "sorry if you were." I don't think that's quite the same as the usual passive-aggressive bit.

Re: Blaming The Writers

OGWiseman — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:42:44 -0000

I'm a writer in Hollywood, not successful yet, and certainly not anything like Kurtzman and Orci, who, racist or not, are having an incredible year. And who, Transformers or not, are actually really good writers. They also wrote the new 'Star Trek', which was awesome, probably because JJ Abrahms directed it instead of Michael Bay. I cut these guys some slack because I've actually met them, and they are quite nice, and they work their asses off. I really don't think it's their fault that Transformers sucked or was racist.

There are a ton of people here who are calling them out for being wishy-washy in their apology, but try to remember one thing: For all intents and purposes, Michael Bay was standing in that room while they were speaking. That's what happens in the movie business, is that Michael Bay and his army of agents and managers and lawyers really do track everything that is said about his movie, especially by people who worked on the movie. And it really is true that if they had flat-out called the movie racist, their ability to get future work would be seriously hampered, and they would lose millions of dollars in future income. So what people are really saying, is that Kurtzman and Orci should have thrown their livelihoods away to make a point about something it was too late to change anyway. I don't think anybody on this thread would do the same. I know I wouldn't. Besides, read the quotes again, and what they really think is pretty obvious. They didn't like the changes, they think people are right to be offended, and they weren't thrilled, which in Hollywood-speak means "I nearly vomited when I saw it". Maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, but frankly I was surprised they were willing to comment at all when asked that directly. They must have felt REALLY strongly about it to be willing to do that.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Juba — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:33:39 -0000

Thus giving Michael Bay the tired "he's Black and he was comfortable saying the lines, why is it a problem?"

Re: Blaming The Writers

Cyborg — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:18:20 -0000

This is a fight I've been waging over at DC Comics for decades.

They wrote a history of (...wait for it) "gang activity" into my story so that joining the Teen Titans could my second chance, my Philly to Bel Air moment.

It's part of why I'm running for mayor of DC. No more Transformer Twins. No more Jar Jar Binks. Not on my watch.

Forward,

Cyborg

www.cyborgformayor.com

Re: Blaming The Writers

Mort — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:14:07 -0000

Yes, and he said he improvised much of the content.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Andy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:05:06 -0000

Ditto. Really wasn't expecting to laugh, had trouble not alerting others.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Incertus(Brian) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:57:51 -0000

Thanks for that. I put it on my Facebook page, after I finished laughing.

Re: Blaming The Writers

anna perez — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:13:28 -0000

Good for them if they were, but I doubt it. Say what you will about Tyler Perry's productions (which btw are no better or worse than Hollywood "B" and "C" movies or tv shows through the ages) but at least Black actors, technicians, producers etc. are getting work.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Juba — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:43:43 -0000

Well one of the voiceover actors was a Black man; what a shame.

Im thinking Hollywood Shuffle needs a remake.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Lemmy Caution — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:35:46 -0000

Having said that, there's no reason not to say "We didn't realize the finished product would be offensive, and we're sorry." Except of course that that's what grown-ups do.

There's a reason there's a joke that goes, "did you hear about the starlet who was so dumb, she slept with the writer?" Writers are in a horrible position in Hollywood. If they got a reputation as people who condemned the films they had just worked for, they'd never work again (unless they were among the few with "f-u" power, and they aren't.) They had to be guarded, even in their mea culpa.

The people who are most responsible for this crap are the producer and the director, and, to a lesser extent, the voice talent. The writers come in after them. Then, society and 500 years of history. Plus, the Transformers always sucked and I never got this nostalgia for them, anyway. (There! I said it!)

Re: Blaming The Writers

eric k — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:23:30 -0000

How writing credits get assigned is a complex topic all on its own.

John Rogers (Kung Fu Monkey Blogger) Once noted that he is credited as a screenwriter on Catwoman, all that was left of his original script in the final film was 1 line of dialogue

Re: Blaming The Writers

Juba — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:02:58 -0000

True and furthermore they dont wanna speak out against it in too strong of terms at the risk of being blackballed all over Hollywood.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Persia — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:00:36 -0000

They could've brought in someone to 'punch up' the dialogue who brought in much, if not all, of the minstrel stuff. Happens all the time. And if they want to get hired again, they're probably not in a place where they can speak out about it.

I'm not suggesting they're innocent. The whole business is rotten, and they could well have put it into the original treatment. But they didn't necessarily do it. (This American Life recently had an interview with the host of "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" about how his first screenplay had somehow become Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights. Check it out sometime, it's funny as hell.)

Re: Blaming The Writers

Miles Ellison — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:45:10 -0000

Perhaps Tyler Perry's people were involved.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Josh — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:21:04 -0000

I can't remember the last time I read something that made me laugh so hard that I had to shut my door so I didn't have to keep it to just a chuckle. That link was awesome.

Re: Blaming The Writers

Cole Moore Odell — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:13:19 -0000

Keep in mind that these guys also wrote the new Star Trek movie, which was a smart, solid action picture. Hollywood credit is a very strange thing.