The Atlantic - Latest Comments in Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Matt — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:34:18 -0000

This item on the illegitimacy rate is a tangential one. Who cares about the birth rate. Anytime 70% of any group abdicates their familial and societal responsibilities, everyone else must pay--the lastest government bailout of wallstreet is a prime example.

I hope the government stops welfare so we can see just how angry this portion of our community becomes when they realize that they must pay their own way.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

DJStylus — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:21:48 -0000

"I don't think anyone here is unconcerned about the fact that those amongst us who seem most able to parent, are doing it the least."

That's why adoption is definitely in my future.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

garvey — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:09:52 -0000

to Dennis Tuchler's point....now at 62 and preparing for marriage (again) i really do look forward to this formal and public promise keeping us together for the rest of my/our lives.

to Ta-nehisi

how could you be "illegitimate" or illegitimate, unless you accept someone else's definition of who you are? i know you have a thing for those grey beards such as myself, but the one lesson we did learn back in the day was to reject the language of oppression. you have demonstrated a proficiency with creating words that speak volumes to others. it is not a matter of liking or not liking a word, the question will remain whose purpose does the word serve. so that there be no confusion and before you require me to zip it, let me add that knowing your dad and your roots, i think you are most legitimate.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Dennis Tuchler — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:14:42 -0000

10 years. hmmmm. not a long time. Good Luck!

The (dis)advantage of marriage is that it begins with a formal and public promise to stay together for the joint lives of the parties. I think that exerts its own pressure to stay together, accepting of course that that magic seems to be at low strength these days.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Michael O'Neill — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:03:36 -0000

Does anyone else cringe when they read things like "having the courage to raise a child"? Hard work doesn't require courage, does it? It might take courage to be some sort of Super Dad, but scraping a D+ out of the fathering barrel just isn't a matter of courage. And scraping a D+ is really all were talking about when it comes to government intervention and incentives.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Arclight — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:54:41 -0000

I get that you are trying to provide some explanation for this particular statistic, but it's still an ominous one. Explaining how that number is generated is fine, but the consequences of the behavior illuminated by this statistic is the salient point, I feel.

And for what it's worth, I'm equally bothered by the rise of oowb in whites and latinos, and I don't care whether it's for similar reasons or not - it points to a major national problem.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

matt — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:07:52 -0000

Just a guess, but the rural/urban difference in family size and the greater porportion of AAs living in urban areas might explain the difference. The comparison I would like to see would be white rural married women vs white urban married woman, and black rural married woman vs black urban married women, then Should be able to create a regression that shows this, it might not amount to a hill of beans but my guess it explains the entire difference. For people living in the city having children is more expensive, since more black folks live in the city thus one would expect the stats to skew lower. Hope this makes sense

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:59:51 -0000

Yeah, lemme double down on that. I don't think anyone here is unconcerned about the fact that those amongst us who seem most able to parent, are doing it the least (crudely put, I know). This is really just a good starting point, so that we're talking about birth-rates among black folks in the right context.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Nquest — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:52:51 -0000

Arclight, the implications of the birth rate of middle class black women was not the point.

The point was what is behind the high out of wedlock birth (oowb) numbers and how people people complaining about out of wedlock births don't account for how the comparisons they make to what the rate/percentage of oowb 30 or 40 years ago are faulty because different and higher birth rate of middle class Black women.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Nquest — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:47:12 -0000

Also, the fact that a child is born out of wedlock says nothing about whether there is an adult male/father figure in their life.

We could have an honest and frank discussion if people would just be honest and find another way of gauge whether father's are present and active in their children's lives.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Arclight — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:44:01 -0000

Umm...the birth rate among married (and presumably much more upwardly mobile) middle class black women goes off a cliff and we're not worried about what that means for all concerned?

This was not a very comforting post, my friend.

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Nquest — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:42:47 -0000

What also gets left out of the discussion is how Black poverty has decreased even as the out-of-wedlock births have risen sharply.

This Brookings piece (An Analysis of Out-Of-Wedlock Births in the United States) also details subject matter that gets ignored in this demonization by decontextualized correlation.

http://www.brookings.edu/papers/1996/08childrenfamilies_akerlof.aspx

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:17:59 -0000

So do I. I don't like "out of wedlock" either. And this is coming from someone who is "illegitimate."

Re: Black illigetimacy reconsidered

fringes — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:07:28 -0000

I really hate the term illegitimate.