The Atlantic - Latest Comments in And then the road not taken...

Re: And then the road not taken...

jeremy — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:41:48 -0000

i believe the ballots/bullets trope originally is lincoln's, reflecting on the violative act of secession.

Re: And then the road not taken...

janinsanfran — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:08:32 -0000

To explore another (less interesting at root, but real) dimension of this, it was Diane Feinstein who used the ballot replacing the bullet language. I heard it and I was like "wha...??" She's my Senator, but not someone I've ever warmed to. What was she doing??

Ran across this from the San Francisco Chronicle, Phil Bronstein writing about watching the day on the big screens in SF Civic Center: "Watching Dianne Feinstein's face filling the CBS broadcast frame, with the backdrop of San Francisco City Hall behind the screen, there was a surreal juxtaposition of past and present, event and personalities. Senator Feinstein began her career in that building as a supervisor and was first propelled onto the national stage, also from there, in the blood and violence of the 1978 killings here when a younger, shaken and much less self-assured woman faced banks of cameras from everywhere.

Perhaps mindful of her own historical trajectory, Dianne noted in her address opening the inaugural as its chairwoman, that we live "in a world where political strife is often beset by violence...". She hailed the triumph of "the ballot over the bullet" and paid tribute to "those who worked and died to make (the country's promise) a reality." In DC, people were thinking Martin Luther King, Jr. and many others. Somewhere in Senator Feinstein's thoughts must have been Harvey Milk and George Moscone."

I've been around long enough to remember that DiFi had been called to the bodies and emerged to tell the press "The mayor and Harvey Milk have just been shot, apparently by Supervisor Dan White." Pretty heavy stuff.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Tiffany — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:25:00 -0000

I totally agree with the connection between Malcolm and Barack. When I first read Barack's book, it I felt it. People misunderstand it when they try to focus on the policy or even the racial context of the men. Malcolm's ultimate journey was about getting to the truth. He only realized that when he was blackballed and he had to realize that his leader was using and betraying him. He was so mired in the societal construct of race that it was harder for him to find his way or I should say, he had a longer road to travel. I think that Barack is on the quest for truth as well. You sense it in his writings. You sense it in his interviews. I think he is not as attached to race in the way Malcolm was and so we are able to better see him as a man of intellectual curiousity rather than a threat. I think had Malcolm lived longer he would have come closer to where Barack is. The problem is that he was born in an era where race was so much in your face that he could have only gotten so far.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Carrington Ward — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:04:21 -0000

A relatively simple similarity between Malcolm X and Obama, as well as a link to DuBois and Douglass; that is an essential realism.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Justin — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:51:29 -0000

For all the MSM fuss about Dr. King, I've been thinking lately that Malcolm has had the deeper-running, longer-lasting influence on our culture (hmm, maybe I just spend too much time reading TNC).

The airbrushed difference between the two is that one was violent and the other wasn't, but that's just poor history and a convenient way to ghettoize the Islamic black leader, I think. And the integration/separation fault line is mentioned above, which is part of a larger idea that I think best encapsulates the ultimate difference between Black Nationalism and Civil Rights: collectivism versus individualism.

The lasting legacy that Malcolm represents seems to be the kind of strong collective identity - a Black Consciousness - that yields, for instance, a powerful electorate that now forms the foundation of a major US political party. Or a cadre of hip hop artists/entrepreneurs who understand the absolute necessity of controlling their music production from bottom to top. Or who foster a community of shared beats and rhymes that form the backbone of a distinctively black art form that is coming to define broader US mainstream culture. Or Bill Cosby, whose message resembles Malcolm's: do it for yourself cause you can't plan on anyone else doing it for you.

Obama's plugged into all of the above in a variety of ways. Paying tribute to Dr. King works for the mainstream, but I'm with you - I think there's a little more Malcolm in there, and I think he knows it.

Anyway, I'm glad you posted these. Dr. King may have his day in January, but the rest of the year? We're just living in Malcolm's world.

Re: And then the road not taken...

DougEMI — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:02:24 -0000

Except that Obama ended up distancing himself from his "chickens coming home to roast" religious leader. His relationship to Wright as it stands today doesn't seem cordial to me.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Juba — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:46:16 -0000

Not that hard to reconcile that JFK chickens Malcolm and Rev. Wright, who I think cited the example. Now granted, Obama is a politician not a preacher or activist like Malcolm, so he cant or wont say such a harsh anti-war critique. But the very fact of their relationship for so many years (Obama-Wright) suggests Obama was willing to hear the case for such criticisms.

Or look at Adam Clayton Powell and Malcolm's cordial relationship. I just dont think its all that far-fetched, tho Obama def. would have been to the right of Malcolm to some degree politically.

Re: And then the road not taken...

DougEMI — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:38:05 -0000

My recollection isd fade by time, I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X in my final year of college and viewed the Spike Lee movie years ago, but my impressions are similar to Bruce's; after the Hajj he thought reconciliation of the races was possible, but through the vehicle of Islam. He saw all these different colors of people travel to Saudi Arabia for one purpose.

I thought Autobiography was fascinating and that no movie could do it justice though Washington did a great job. It is difficult to compare eras, but I find it hard to make much reconciliation between the Malcolm who talked about the chickens coming home to roast after JFK was killed, and the man President Obama is today. I am not saying there isn't a connection, just saying I don't see it as all that tight from my perspective.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Juba — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:59:45 -0000

Im pretty sure at the MMM, bro. Farrakhan was asking more from me and my boys than abundant Life. I seem to remember seeing a whole lot of dollars being requested, then waved in the air on cue by a lot of black male hands in the crowd.

But hey, Brother X. Slave, sounds like you're pretty strongly in the tank for the NOI so lets not waste time trying to proselytize to each other.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Mr. Lee X Slave — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:50:30 -0000

You are very insulting to a man who want nothing from you except that you have Life and and have it more abundantly. Why would you call The Hon. Minister Louis Farrakhan a intellectual thug. I beg of you to show Your ardent readers examples to justifies such vile and hateful descriptions of a Man of God whether you are Muslim are not. By your writing you sem to have anti Black and anti semetic leaning your self.

One Love

Re: And then the road not taken...

Mr. Lee X Slave — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:40:33 -0000

To Ms Coates;

I admired your blog up to this point. Do you know what a Semite is. Sem·ite audio (smt) KEY

NOUN:

1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

2. A Jew.

3. Bible A descendant of Shem.

This comes from Columbia Encyclopedia.

How can you spout such ignorancy and seem so intelligent at the same time. Just because the Hon Minister Louis Farrakhan says some things that jewish people may not like or agree with does not make him a anti Semite according to the above definition He hates Himself.

Next question, what would have become of Malcolm Little had he not met the one man who had the greatest impact on his life, I speak of none other than The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad. I watched the two videos you posted about Min Malcolm X, being a product and student of Min Malcolm I noticed that He did not accept his own responsibilities of making sure that the rank and file Believers were well informed. Unlike most people who claimed to love and follow His example, I met and question his friends and associates in and out of the Nation Of Islam and this Brother of Ours took pride in the people under his charge. Do not believe the HYPE, study and investigate this 'OUR SHINING PRINCE' or just continue being counted as one of the IGNORANT MASSES.

Much Love & Peace

Re: And then the road not taken...

sv — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:36:56 -0000

bramble,

you make some good points but i disagree that malcolm would have ever subscribed to the worldview we now know as 'neocons' - IF blacks had become as successful as Jews post-war, even while failing to integrate, well.. even then do you believe they would have subscribed to the theme of 'National Greatness' and the glorification of US military power 'reshaping the world' abroad which lies at the heart of neoconservatism? perhaps he would have allied with Republican social conservatives, but i don't think so - Malcolm may have believed in many of the values found in black conservatism, but many of those same values are found among all people, among all minority groups in America. my parents are rather conservative Indians but they still dont vote Republican because they've always felt a hostility from that party rooted in tribalism. This is almost tautological, but traditionalists will naturally go back to their own ethnic roots and face off against other tribes which, to the outside observer, may seem very similar. there's nothing inherently 'white' or 'anti-black' in conservative thought per se, but not many of those who would have called themselves Conservative in America in past decades would dream of sullying themselves with black Muslims, period - they see their own tradition as 'tradition,' their own exclusionary view of America as "America" in general, etc.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Juba — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:33:47 -0000

Also, no way Malcolm would ever have been a neo-con. It wasnt liberals he had a fanatical hatred of (more like a bemused cynicism), but neo-colonialists--which are today's neo-cons.

Besides neo-cons have been tooling up to go to war with Islam since Dan Quayle named it our next major enemy in the early 90s.

And if you want a rough guess as to how Malcolm would have evolved religiously and politically, take a look at his best friend (and Chicago resident), the late great Warith D. Muhammad (PBUH). Devout Sunni, humble leader, internationalist, left-wing progressive politically and willing to work with ideological opposites (Farrakhan, the US Govt.) towards positive aims.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Juba — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:28:45 -0000

Bramble,

Ironically, if the white majority hadn't been the object of Malcolm X's animus, the Right would have otherwise embraced his philosophy: idealization racial purity, hard-nose up-by-your-bootstraps attitude, distrust of government, violence as the final (and most natural) arbiter of human conflict. Let's face it. The man was a born wingnut -- just born the "wrong" color.

Dunno how familiar you are with Malcolm's life and views in full, but he later admitted that much of what was seen as "his" positions were actually Elijah Muhammad / NOI positions--which he as the spokesman had to be the charismatic mouthpiece for. Behind the scenes he agitated and questioned ("always asking WHY all the time instead of doing what you TOLD." -Snoop Pearson) this xenophobia and violence until it got him booted and, ultimately, shot.

So racial purity and violence as an arbiter were ideas he was rapidly redefining at the time of his murder...there's plenty of scholarship to back my claim.

Re: And then the road not taken...

bramble — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:10:29 -0000

Lee has been accused of playing fast and loose with the historical record vis-a-vis X, but I'm not the one to judge the merits of the accusation. Maybe someone should Google.

A few other shared vaules between X and the right:

Religiosity as a key to a well functioning polity;

A fanatical hatred of liberals and other do-gooders.

In general, I'd say it was likely that X's opinions changed over time -- as did GW Bush's -- but did his basically political sensibility change?

If X had lived, I can imagine him finding some place for himself on the right or among the neocons (I'm already having second thoughts about this assertion, because race is so important to the formation of ideologies in the US, but at least theoretically if a former marxist can become a neocon then a black nationalist can, too. Or to put as a counterfactual, if blacks had enjoyed the kind of postwar economic success as Jews did it is hard to imagine X. NOT becoming a neocon of some sort).

On the other hand, I cannot imagine MLK shifting to the right. His roots were planted in a philosophical soil inimical to the right's worldview. It seems horrendously lame, cliche and MSM to compare BHO and MLK, but politically do they really share any major differences?

Re: And then the road not taken...

sv — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:56:28 -0000

Coates, you expressed what I'm struggling to say here in your Fresh Air interview, so so much better than I did.

Re: And then the road not taken...

Bruce — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:35:13 -0000

Sg...my recollection is that after his hajj he thought that racial-boundries could be overcome through the religion of islam...it's basically taken from spike's movie... i'm banking on a rebuttle!

Re: And then the road not taken...

CParis — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:16:13 -0000

sgwhiteinfla says:

Obama pretty much said we all have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps today. The only difference being that Obama feels the government has a role in that whereas wingnuts do not.

The rightwingnuts will steal your boots and then try to sell you some toxic, made-in-sweatshop flipflops to replace them.

Re: And then the road not taken...

sv — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:55:56 -0000

watched the vids in their entirety.

the 'fight' rhyme to me reflects the same spirit seen in malcolm's assertion (in the first video) that one day black people would rise up and unite in armed resistance against white oppressors - even though he seemed to feel at the time that until the integrationist-minded blacks came over to his side of things, to militant separatism, he wouldn't aid them in their 'foolish' efforts to integrate into the mainstream system, a system he correctly perceived as fundamentally hypocritical. it was the standing up for oneself that i admired. in the second video we see a malcolm who has come closer to the truth about the human family, the malcolm i most admire - for his honesty.

PS - JC i think you're on point with those five stylistic similarities between Malcolm X's and W.F. Buckley's ways of talking and debating. reflective of clear, sharp, confident thinking in both cases.

Re: And then the road not taken...

bramble — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:51:38 -0000

Ironically, if the white majority hadn't been the object of Malcolm X's animus, the Right would have otherwise embraced his philosophy: idealization racial purity, hard-nose up-by-your-bootstraps attitude, distrust of government, violence as the final (and most natural) arbiter of human conflict. Let's face it. The man was a born wingnut -- just born the "wrong" color.

I don't see much shared philosophy between Malcolm and Barack myself.

Re: And then the road not taken...

JC — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:42:02 -0000

I would have to agree, for the little it's worth - and it isn't worth much - Malcolm's and Obama's style are similar in the sense of being strong, fresh, , likeable, humorous, charismatic, INTELLECTUAL, in the presentation.

Very similar, qualities also, on the other side, to say a William Buckley. This deeper voice, that alternates between clear and lucid explanations, a "masculine" sensibility, and then of course, laced conversationally with humor.

Those five qualities are, again:

1. A strong masculine vibe

2. Clear, lucid, and composed communication

3. Humor laced throughout the conversation

4. An intellectual vibe.

5. An upbeat enthusiasm

If you take, for example this clip where Buckley converses with Chomsky, you see those qualities.

I'm probably stretching - but simply as PRESENTATION ANALYSIS (style, not content), I see Buckley being closer in presentation, to Obama and Malcolm, than say to King.

thoughts on this?

Re: And then the road not taken...

Ted — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:37:54 -0000

If you're rambling I must be shambling, because I dig every word you wrote there. Ask the Burmese how that turn the other cheek works out. Ballot or bullet doesn't mean you PREFER the bullet. It's just saying ... (I loved MLK too, but Malcolm brought REAL to the prayer.)

To add, today feels like emergence from forty-plus years of corpses -- John, Medgar, Martin, Bobby, and all the others who would have made a difference. I'm in my fifties, and today I feel my teenager-hope is restored. And now, (Thanks, Reverend Lowery), I'm gonna be alright.

Re: And then the road not taken...

sgwhiteinfla — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:31:10 -0000

You know I have to say that I was shocked, shocked I tell you that Hannity/Bill O/Limbaugh never said much when President Obama invoked Malcolm X when told people not to be bamboozled or hoodwinked into not voting for him.

Re: And then the road not taken...

sv — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:27:31 -0000

"Today its time to stop singing and start swinging" classic

..

wow. that too is very rousing. (I posted on the previous thread about how rousing dr. king's last words are to me.) That self-determination tip.

TNC your nursery rhyme reminds me of this one I heard in my childhood and still rings in my head to this day:

"A fight! A fight! A nigga and a white!

If the nigga don't win, we all jump in! "

i know that sort of schoolyard/gangbanger/knives-out-sectarian-war feeling is not exactly something to be cultivated, but at the time: if only WE had that kind of solidarity and brass, i thought, admiringly. of course it was a particular situation growing up tiny minority that we were in that town at the time, and as much shit as i got, the majority of the shittiness i felt was self-imposed. i shoulda just fought more :)

Re: And then the road not taken...

muzz al atesta — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:16:18 -0000

"...These are revolutionary times. All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression and out of the wombs of a frail world new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the land are rising up as never before. "The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light." We in the West must support these revolutions. It is a sad fact that, because of comfort, complacency, a morbid fear of communism, and our proneness to adjust to injustice, the Western nations that initiated so much of the revolutionary spirit of the modern world have now become the arch anti-revolutionaries. This has driven many to feel that only Marxism has the revolutionary spirit. Therefore, communism is a judgement against our failure to make democracy real and follow through on the revolutions we initiated. Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary spirit and go out into a sometimes hostile world declaring eternal hostility to poverty, racism, and militarism. With this powerful commitment we shall boldly challenge the status quo and unjust mores and thereby speed the day when "every valley shall be exalted, and every moutain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight and the rough places plain"..."

spoken in 1967 by that other radical black revolutionary, MLK

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html