The Atlantic - Latest Comments in And Here...We...Go!

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Marc Adin — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:38:18 -0000

Calvin opines: "But best case, god [sic and sick] willing, is that America rejects this incompetent in a pretty suit with his America hating wife and his terrorist buddies and we get McCain. Because America doesn't need Obama."

Hey Cal, loved the post. It touched me in my most sentive area, my one brown eye. You're right, of course, America doesn't need Obama. It needs me.

I have a question for you: "What is easier said than done?" If you get it correct, you can tell me who to vote for in November.

"Don't be fool, stay in school." Marc Adin, Winner George Washington School best GW Slogan Contest, 1955.

Dang, I'm too hot to stot!

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Ta-Nehisi Coates — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:08:14 -0000

Guys, I been on the run. Didn't see this until late today. But seriously, I thought we were sharper. Did you think this dude was serious?

Re: And Here...We...Go!

One Drop — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:48:31 -0000

I have no beef with Cal supporting the GOP, in fact I find myself totally unsurprised. He and his apparent cohorts at hillaryis44 are doing a fine job of continuing that support.

As for all of these people talking about Obama not deserving the office, not being worthy, etc., as a white southerner all I can say is my Klan-dar starts going off big-time whenever I hear folks talk about what a black man "deserves" to have or not have.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

trollinator — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:46:05 -0000

Here's Cal's website whois info. It's chock full of useful info in learning more about who this troll really is. A couple of nuggets: his name ain't Cal, and he's been giving money to Republicans since at least 1998.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Blue Moon — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:22:14 -0000

For the last time Cal, senators don't DO anything. I'm so tired of the McCain "has more experience" line because, to repeat myself, senators don't DO anything but vote, campaign, and dine at the tables of lobbyists (yes, even McCain likes lobbyists' food).

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Persia — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:41:19 -0000

Just Karl, I'm really glad she didn't hammer on the Supreme Court/abortion rights. We've been hearing from HRC supporters for ages that just holding Roe vs. Wade over their heads is disrespectful and not enough. HRC gave all the other reasons to vote Democratic this year. And it's a long fucking list.

John McCain has one extrordinary accomplishment, surviving his POW experience.

Is it really so extraordinary? I mean, according to the rules of the Bush Administration, he wasn't even tortured!

More seriously, I think the admirable part of McCain's war experience is not that he was shot down and tortured, but the way he came back to be a successful Senator when he returned. He's clearly a tough guy. But 'being a tough guy' and 'surviving shitty experiences' does not qualify anyone for the White House.

Cal, I'd love to know how Emil Jones persuaded Richard Lugar to work with Obama on loose nukes. Did he have a compromising photograph?

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Kerry Reid — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:28:13 -0000

Ack. My bad. I overlooked Thurgood Marshall, which is unforgiveable! Sorry, Justice Marshall. And thanks for the good fight! I wish the first woman on the court had been as heroic as you. You would never have allowed George Bush to steal the election through judicial fiat.

But still -- anyone who is still floating that BS "black men got the right to vote before women" line really needs to re-think that argument in the light of actual history. It's insulting to the memory of the many people, white and black, who were beaten and killed trying to ensure that black voters could exercise their franchise. I'm not arguing that women had it easy fighting for the vote (force-feeding isn't a day at the beach), but the struggles simply aren't comparable in terms of degree of oppression. (And let us not forget that the white suffragists didn't want to associate with black women like Ida Wells because they thought it would hurt their cause.)

And there have been far more women in the U.S. Senate (as last night's lineup at the convention showed) than African Americans.

I didn't expect to get as choked up watching this convention as I have (for the record, I'm an over-40 white woman and active feminist since age 13, so the pundits would tell me I'm the natural constituency of HRC. The pundits would once again be wrong.) But it's given me a tiny bit of hope that maybe we can turn this disaster around.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

BradyMoss — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:20:00 -0000

No, Cal, it's "vile" to say that the man's wife "hates" America because it shows you are more willing to make this about what you think she meant than what she actually meant. Suspicion is not proof, save in your mind. By the way, young Cal, how much "love" for America and its most cherished values was Cindy McCain showing when she stole from a childrens charity to get high? Further, since Mrs. McCain said that she has ALWAYS been proud of her country, isn't it fair to ask if she was proud of the Jim Crow years?

Finally, do you understand the difference between pride in one's country and love of it, or is your relationship to America akin to that which a toddler shares with its mother?

Re: And Here...We...Go!

randomliberal — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:11:52 -0000

Zach,

This game is rigged.

You're only now coming to that conclusion?

Changing subjects: As my girlfriend and I sat and watched the speech last night, we were joking to each other that she only mentioned Barack Obama 10 times, which obviously would not nearly be enough times to show that no, there is no public break between the two and yes, she will work her ass off this fall for Obama. It's impossible to parody some people, apparently...good Lord.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Steve — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:05:25 -0000

Man, if that was doing the minimum, I not sure I could have handled the maximum.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

dearleader nyc — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:54:14 -0000

Cal,

On what specific issue or issues is Hillary so right and Obama so egregiously wrong that a McCain presidency would be preferable?

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Cal — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:06:58 -0000

Voting for someone who's against everything you claim to stand for is a viable alternative to you?

He's not against "everything" I stand for. That's the problem with leftists. They think that list I gave is critical, rather than maybe 20% of the total. Normally, the 20% counts a lot because both parties have nominated a candidate who meets the baseline qualifications. But Obama doesn't meet that, so the 20% doesn't matter.

You better get used to the fact that many Americans feel this way. Most of the country isn't a slave to a few points of ideology (on either the right or left).

And please, I'm fully aware of the pathetic offerings that you all dredge up for evidence of his "record". His state senate record was created by Emil Jones, who stripped everyone else of legislation and gave it to Obama in the last year of his term so he could pretend to have accomplishments.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Zach — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:37:23 -0000

This new talking point that she didn't do enough to embrace Barack Obama the person is mind-boggling. Wasn't it just yesterday when every pundit out there was whining about how Michelle Obama's speech was ALL Barack Obama the person and not enough attacks on McCain? That the first day was wasted on polite exhortations of character when Dems should've been demonstrating clearly the difference between Obama and McCain? Now Hillary comes out swinging and, oh my god, she didn't talk enough about Barack Obama as a person. This game is rigged.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

num1Obamaton — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:25:27 -0000

Cal wrote: "It is quite possible to support abortion rights, support stem-cell research, oppose tax cuts, oppose conservative judicial nominations, and still want John McCain to be president because the alternative--a man who has done nothing in his entire life but win elections where he gamed the system--is simply unsupportable..."

I have to say I don't think I've ever read a more stupid statement. Voting for someone who's against everything you claim to stand for is a viable alternative to you? If I thought you really cared about what Obama has done, I'd send you here. -- http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html

But people like you don't care. You just cling to bullshit ideas like "He hasn't done anything", "There's no substance to his positions", "He's a Muslim".

You do it because for all the substantive reasons there may be to oppose Obama, you know yours are petty. You're a sore loser Hillary supporter who feels if she can't have it this year, no Dem cane. Or you just can't quite bring yourself to back a black man for President. Perhaps you're a McCain supporter who would've come up with some petty reason to be against Hillary is she'd won.

You say Obama has "done nothing his whole life...". John McCain has one extrordinary accomplishment, surviving his POW experience. Other than that, his life and career have been nothing but a series of mediocre results. For all of his "experience", his own campaign doesn't trumpet his "successes" because they know his senate career has been mediocre. Sure he has sat on this commitee and knows that guy. But what has he accomplished:

* McCain-Feingold failed to significantly reduce the role of money in politics; even he played fast and loose with it during the primaries.

* He failed to get a big tobacco bill through the Senate.

* He's failed to change the way Congress spends money; his bill to give the president a line-item veto was declared unconstitutional.

* He failed to reform the immigration system.

McCain was a mediocre student, who became a mediocre pilot(having crashed a couple of planes before he was shot down in Vietnam), and went on to have a mediocre career in public service. -- http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-mccain-would-mediocre-president/story.aspx?guid=%7b4914192B-12AF-4623-AB18-5EFE91204B04%7d&print=true&dist=printMidSection

But according to people like you, he's so extrordinary compared to Obama, that you'd vote for McCain even though he's against what you stand for politically. That's crap.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

msw — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:31:35 -0000

She did the minimum. She needed to walk back the commander in chief line, that she did not will be a problem.

She needed to embrace Obama the person, not just the Democrat nominee, she didn't and that's a problem.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Just Karl — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:02:31 -0000

I heard Clinton mention the Supreme Court (being in a right wing headlock). Maybe you missed it.

Maybe, but Gene Robinson pointed out the same thing to Pat Buchanan later on last night and they seemed to decide that it was because Hillary didn't want to offend her conservative Catholic supporters. There was a mention that this might be helpful to Obama, as if mentioning the Supreme Court would scare away more votes than it would bring in. I don't think that's true and I don't see why she would fear offending conservatives.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Cal — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:52:30 -0000

Oh, please. It's "vile" to believe that Obama's an incompetent in an empty suit? If that's vile, then y'all have been spewing vileness about Republicans for a long time now. If it's only vile because I'm saying it about a Democrat, then you might want to find a dictionary.

The speech was great, but Hillary did the bare minimum to help Obama. Any statement about him was nothing more than filling in the blanks on a boilerplate sentence or two. That's all she should have done, and he can be grateful for it. If he can't unite the party--and all signals say he can't--then that's his problem, and the DNC's for being moronic enough to nominate someone who hasn't done a thing.

You don't have to be a rabid Clinton fan to be a Democratic voter who opposes Obama. It is quite possible to support abortion rights, support stem-cell research, oppose tax cuts, oppose conservative judicial nominations, and still want John McCain to be president because the alternative--a man who has done nothing in his entire life but win elections where he gamed the system--is simply unsupportable, particularly with a Democratic Congress eager to do as much damage as it can.

It cracks me up that progressives see this as some sort of betrayal. As if voters are required to vote for a Democrat just because they usually do.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

MoeLarryAndJesus — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:43:00 -0000

"But you know, Condi has a nice figure."

Sure, for a 12 year old boy. Yikes.

The PUMA cranks are getting way too much attention for a group that's much smaller than the Ron Paul die-hards.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Phoebe — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:36:47 -0000

Kids, you need to know that the reason Hillary wears a pantsuit is that she has legs like tree trunks. Just distractingly not good. Michelle's legs are flawless, and that's just the luck of the draw. Also, pantsuits are not all bad, either. Condi has worn some nice ones. But you know, Condi has a nice figure. H is just insanely bottom-heavy and believe me, she does the best she can with what she's got. And that's all you can really ask of anyone.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Jennifer — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:20:45 -0000

Dude. The orange against blue was an awesome choice. She looked GREAT. Sisterhood of the Traveling Pantsuit? Hardly. Don't think she can compete with Michelle, tho. That woman is smokin' hot, gorgeous, and amazing. She'll never be caught dead in a pantsuit and more power to her. I'm confident that the days of the power pantsuit are officially O-VER and it couldn't come soon enough.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

BradyMoss — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:16:58 -0000

I don't believe the more vile things that Cal does, but he is correct to point out that she did not, not once, say Barack is ready, and why.

Sigh.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Shine — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:03:28 -0000

HRC was never seriously considered because of Bill. An active, enganged, uncontrollable micro-managing ex-Prez as the VP's spouse? Nope. Won't work.

BTW TC, Cal needs to be banned, pronto.

Re: And Here...We...Go!

frankie d — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:58:14 -0000

tonight hillary showed why i supported her for vice-president.

a great speech.

t-nc is right, the lines referencing harriet tubman were just incredible.

i listened to the speech on the radio as i drove home so i concentrated on the words and the speech and had no visuals.

even though biden will be a very good mate, i think that clinton showed that he could have sewed up the election if he'd been able to put all of the clinton/obama drama to the side and put her on the ticket. one can only dream about what might have been....

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Whitey — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:53:58 -0000

I like Hillary when she's released from the shackles of Pennism. Let's hope that the slime doesn't seep into Bill's speech too much (Penn's helping him write it).

Re: And Here...We...Go!

Cal — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:34:53 -0000

I wonder if that's where she's got her eye.

Good god, the stupidity runs rampant.

Clinton doesn't want Obama to win, and that's where she has her eye. If he does win, then she'll probably stay in the Senate or go run for governor, hoping that he's such a lousy president that he can't credibly run again in 2012.

But best case, god willing, is that America rejects this incompetent in a pretty suit with his America hating wife and his terrorist buddies and we get McCain. Because America doesn't need Obama.

BTW, Obamabots are the only people who think this was a spectacular speech that supports Obama. Anyone sane notices that she never once mentioned that he was qualified to be commander in chief and didn't mention him more than she mentioned McCain.